Battle of silicone greases for caliper slide pins

I got a tube of Wurth Silicone Lubricating Compound like 15 years ago. The tube actually says it's good for two years lol.
I use it on all sorts of things, not just caliper slide pins. It's great on o-rings, any sort of rubber dust boots, basically anything rubber. It's quite tacky so I often use it to hold the gaskets.
Never caused any swelling or dried up. I'm happy with it.

Having said that, when this one finally runs out, I will probably get something else, as Wurth products don't seam readily available here. 3M silicone paste looks very similar, so I may get that.

View attachment 157854
I hear Wurth makes very good stuff, but it's not widely known or available in my area
 
I use the Permatex little packs of grease from NAPA for about $3.00 USD per pack. It's barely enough to do one set of brakes but I do them so infrequently it's not really worth it to buy a large container of brake grease. Seems to work well but I'm not in the rust belt.
 
I’d like to share my experience and likely may ruffle feathers. All the aftermarket lubricants will fail unless you regularly service them by removing the old stuff, cleaning, and replenishing with new lubricant within 2 years in rust belt area. I switched over to the AGS sil-glyde product for the caliper pins and after 3 years and 36K of not inspecting, the pin froze solid in the caliper for the ‘03 Corolla. Probably took me close to 3 hours of heating, soaking, rattling, and impacting that I finally freed the pin as it was destroyed regardless. No visually damaged boots and the solid pin with the non-rubber sleeve was the one that seized up. Upon further inspecting, the shaft looks more like orange peel so you can argue the base pin material corroded and the lubricant failed. I believe if you looked up the flat rate master on you tube, he expressed dissatisfaction with the Permetex purple ”decomposing” and turning gummy as I had. So now, I converted over to Toyotas supposedly factory rubber pinkish grease p/n 08887-01206 and see if any improvement. I serviced the caliper pins on my ‘15 Toyota Sienna that has never been serviced nor driven in the snow/salt water after 7 years and 50k, the pins are beautiful and free with no issues with the factory lubricant! Strange the color was more amber/tan/brown so I give up.

What I will say is only clean the pins with solvent clean and wipe, and NOT use a dremel, wire brush, sand paper, abrasive pads, grind wheels, etc. etc. because this will scratch the factory anodize or chromate dip in the pins and basically you just bought the farm like I did. I’m betting that‘s the culprit in my example frustration. Either replace pins if too corroded or aggressively clean as mentioned and shorten service intervals to 1 year. Choose whatever brand AGS, Super Lube, Permetex, Mission Automotive, 3M, factory…but properly service every 2 years minimum.
 
I'm on the fence about lube on the guide pins. BMW says to not use any because it attracts dirt. I have used a small amount of Sil-Glyde and none at all and did not find it to make any difference. 🤔
Much of the ATE calipers don’t use grease. The guide pins bolt directly to the carrier. The rubber bushing makes it a "semi-floating" caliper design.
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There are other designs that the caliper bolts to the guide pin, which the guide pin are in grease and a rubber boot


1685134256001.jpg


back to the greaseless guide pins. Sometimes you can replace the rubber bushing with a metal bushing. That does require grease (and annual maintenance), and comes with Sil-Glyde packets if you get Tyrolsport ones.
1685134696101.jpg
 
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Caliper pins: Mission Automotive or 3M silicone paste.
Hardwares: Permatex Purple Grease or any synthetic brake lube.
Caliper piston face: Permatex Orange Silicone.
 
I use Kleen-Flo Eze Slide for my caliper pins.
Permatex green silicone brake lube for pad ears, and areas where metal to metal contact occurs with caliper and piston.
 
Much of the ATE calipers don’t use grease. The guide pins bolt directly to the carrier. The rubber bushing makes it a "semi-floating" caliper design.
View attachment 157919


There are other designs that the caliper bolts to the guide pin, which the guide pin are in grease and a rubber boot


View attachment 157918

back to the greaseless guide pins. Sometimes you can replace the rubber bushing with a metal bushing. That does require grease (and annual maintenance), and comes with Sil-Glyde packets if you get Tyrolsport ones.View attachment 157921

That first picture is missing dust caps. These can definitely be and should be greased, at least the portion of the pin that sits inside the rubber boot. They take very little grease and the pins should be pulled out annually, cleaned and re-greased IMO. At least that was my regiment on my old mazda3, which had the ATE calipers. Got rid of it with original brake hardware when it was 14 or 15 years old.

The last picture is racing application, but I’m sure there are people that put these on street cars too. They probably wouldn’t last one winter in the rust belt.
 
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That first picture is missing dust caps. These can definitely be and should be greased, at least the portion of the pin that sits inside the rubber boot. They take very little grease and the pins should be pulled out annually, cleaned and re-greased IMO. At least that was my regiment on my old mazda3, which had the ATE calipers. Got rid of it with original brake hardware when it was 14 or 15 years old.

The last picture is racing application, but I’m sure there are people that put these on street cars too. They probably wouldn’t last one winter in the rust belt.
Yes, it’s missing the dust cap. It’s a stock photo, not installed on a car. But like BMW, VW says not to grease them

The metal bushing works fine for street cars and it does come with a cap now. I’ve had them on 3 VW’s of my past
 
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Interesting how for the VW code TecDoc only lists the Febi and a SWAG code that I couldn't find. The Fuchs Renolit also doesn't seem to be available.

I guess this Febi is the safe bet, but there's also the option of getting Textar Hydratec or ATE "brake cylinder paste": https://www.ate-info.de/en/details/produkte/ate-bremszylinder-paste-180-ml_spanisch.

Plastilube is not for pins, it's just anti-squealing surface-lubricating grease: https://www.ate-info.de/en/details/produkte/ate-plastilube-75-ml

VW also sell G 052 150 A2 directly in a 180g tube, it should be available from dealers.

ATE Bremszylinderpaste is primarily an assembly lubricant for caliper seals, it doesn't really look like something I'd use on pins.
Textar Hydra Tec is also primarily intended as an assembly lubricant, unfortunately I can't find any tech specs for it so I don't know how suitable it really is for pins.

Of the three I would definitely go with the Febi for pins, but if you're looking for a European PAG I would consider TRW PFG110 (Klüber SYNTHESO GLK 1) as well.
 
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So now, I converted over to Toyotas supposedly factory rubber pinkish grease p/n 08887-01206 and see if any improvement. I serviced the caliper pins on my ‘15 Toyota Sienna that has never been serviced nor driven in the snow/salt water after 7 years and 50k, the pins are beautiful and free with no issues with the factory lubricant! Strange the color was more amber/tan/brown so I give up.

What I will say is only clean the pins with solvent clean and wipe, and NOT use a dremel, wire brush, sand paper, abrasive pads, grind wheels, etc. etc. because this will scratch the factory anodize or chromate dip in the pins and basically you just bought the farm like I did. I’m betting that‘s the culprit in my example frustration. Either replace pins if too corroded or aggressively clean as mentioned and shorten service intervals to 1 year. Choose whatever brand AGS, Super Lube, Permetex, Mission Automotive, 3M, factory…but properly service every 2 years minimum.

Calipers are lubed in the caliper manufacturers factory, the automakers just bolt them on. All of the caliper manufactures have their preferred lubes, but the automakers don't want to stock that many items and typically just specify whatever good enough multi-purpose product they feel like for aftermarket service.

Yes, it's critical that pins be in good condition with intact plating! Boots and especially bushings should also be replaced, bushings that have swelled too much can get stuck in the bore. Most all lubricants, including "rubber safe" ones cause some change in properties of elastomers, there's so many variables in play that are hard to pin down. It's far safer, and usually ultimately cheaper to just consider bushings to be a single use item rather than try and determine if they're still serviceable after use.
 
That first picture is missing dust caps. These can definitely be and should be greased, at least the portion of the pin that sits inside the rubber boot. They take very little grease and the pins should be pulled out annually, cleaned and re-greased IMO. At least that was my regiment on my old mazda3, which had the ATE calipers. Got rid of it with original brake hardware when it was 14 or 15 years old.

The last picture is racing application, but I’m sure there are people that put these on street cars too. They probably wouldn’t last one winter in the rust belt.

ATE says the insides of the bushings are teflon coated, and are adamant that they not be lubed.

If there's concerns about sticking pins on ATE calipers the correct course of action is to remove and discard the bushings, check for and remove any corrosion from the inside of the metal bores that they go in, and install new bushings.
 
I’d like to share my experience and likely may ruffle feathers. All the aftermarket lubricants will fail unless you regularly service them by removing the old stuff, cleaning, and replenishing with new lubricant within 2 years in rust belt area. I switched over to the AGS sil-glyde product for the caliper pins and after 3 years and 36K of not inspecting, the pin froze solid in the caliper for the ‘03 Corolla. Probably took me close to 3 hours of heating, soaking, rattling, and impacting that I finally freed the pin as it was destroyed regardless. No visually damaged boots and the solid pin with the non-rubber sleeve was the one that seized up. Upon further inspecting, the shaft looks more like orange peel so you can argue the base pin material corroded and the lubricant failed. I believe if you looked up the flat rate master on you tube, he expressed dissatisfaction with the Permetex purple ”decomposing” and turning gummy as I had. So now, I converted over to Toyotas supposedly factory rubber pinkish grease p/n 08887-01206 and see if any improvement. I serviced the caliper pins on my ‘15 Toyota Sienna that has never been serviced nor driven in the snow/salt water after 7 years and 50k, the pins are beautiful and free with no issues with the factory lubricant! Strange the color was more amber/tan/brown so I give up.

What I will say is only clean the pins with solvent clean and wipe, and NOT use a dremel, wire brush, sand paper, abrasive pads, grind wheels, etc. etc. because this will scratch the factory anodize or chromate dip in the pins and basically you just bought the farm like I did. I’m betting that‘s the culprit in my example frustration. Either replace pins if too corroded or aggressively clean as mentioned and shorten service intervals to 1 year. Choose whatever brand AGS, Super Lube, Permetex, Mission Automotive, 3M, factory…but properly service every 2 years minimum.
Living in MA, I like to take wheels off before and after winter. Relube slide pins ( have sil-glyde but have switched to 3M silicone paste) take caliper bracket off, remove hardware clips, clean underneath, little 3M copper anti-seize, and reinstall
 
So now, I converted over to Toyotas supposedly factory rubber pinkish grease p/n 08887-01206 and see if any improvement. I serviced the caliper pins on my ‘15 Toyota Sienna that has never been serviced nor driven in the snow/salt water after 7 years and 50k, the pins are beautiful and free with no issues with the factory lubricant! Strange the color was more amber/tan/brown so I give up.

What I will say is only clean the pins with solvent clean and wipe, and NOT use a dremel, wire brush, sand paper, abrasive pads, grind wheels, etc. etc. because this will scratch the factory anodize or chromate dip in the pins and basically you just bought the farm like I did. I’m betting that‘s the culprit in my example frustration. Either replace pins if too corroded or aggressively clean as mentioned and shorten service intervals to 1 year. Choose whatever brand AGS, Super Lube, Permetex, Mission Automotive, 3M, factory…but properly service every 2 years minimum.

I've seen the same color change over time with my Scion tC's brakes, with the Toyota pink grease. I think it's the heat of the calipers that do that. The longer it's in there, the darker it gets. And completely agree that the coating on the sliding pins is never to be sanded off, bad things happen!

Thanks for posting this for the other Toyota owners to be aware of when servicing the calipers. Oh and Toyota also says to use that pink grease on the rubber seal of the caliper piston, read that on a TSB Toyota put out. Helps the rubbber (my opinion) stay well lubed over time, won't dry out or rub/rip.
 
ATE says the insides of the bushings are teflon coated, and are adamant that they not be lubed.

If there's concerns about sticking pins on ATE calipers the correct course of action is to remove and discard the bushings, check for and remove any corrosion from the inside of the metal bores that they go in, and install new bushings.
Yeah, yeah all you “by the book” guys like to flex your book knowledge, yet when a caliper goes bad I mostly read cheap reman recommendations as a replacement. There are tons of threads about failed calipers or pins. Somehow the book is quiet in these threads. Same goes for stuck spark plug threads.

I’m just going to stick what works for me and recommend it to others based on my experience. I treat manufacturer as a guide, not the Bible because ultimately they will do exactly zero to help me if their recommendations still end up in failure.
 
The general consensus is to use a "dielectric" silicone grease
Thoughts?
I dont think dielectric is a good choice because it's just to thick and sticky . At least the CRC grease I have is . In fact I had to cut the can in half because it no longer would come out
 
My SOP for slide pins is Toyota rubber grease or Dow 111 and Permatex Purple or similar for metal-on-metal.

Now, I’m using the orange Permatex silicone ceramic on slide pins of one car - no issues yet.
 
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