Battery Test Report: Input Needed

[Vikas]

If you were to buy a new battery on your own, it will cost you less than the headaches that you are having right now. If the battery is leaking, then not only it will die on you, it will hasten the corrosion of the battery cable clamps.

- Vikas

 

[The_Jeff]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
If the battery is leaking, then not only it will die on you, it will hasten the corrosion of the battery cable clamps.

- Vikas


Corrosion of the whole car downhill of the battery! I don't know where they stick them on Subies but GM FWDs are good at rotting the subframe and other important stuff under their battery trays.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
The battery is probably going to die this winter. I would make it happen on my schedule. Leave your a light on and drain the battery to zero. It'll kill at least one of the cells.


I'd love to do that, but I don't have time to wait for Subaru Roadside to come jump me. I'm also worried that the fully or mostly drained battery might cause premature wear on the alternator. I guess that's silly thinking, since I'm probably putting additional strain on the charging system after every slow start.

Originally Posted By: edhackett
I just replaced the battery in my '08 Legacy GT for slow cranking. It was a Subaru brand by Johnson controls. It was also showing signs of acid leakage at the terminals and vents. Apparently, not a great battery.

If you've got access to a VOM, check the voltage in the morning before driving. It should be a 12.5-12.6 volts. Then read the voltage while cranking. if it drops below 10V, the battery is on its way out.

New battery time at 3 years. These are the readings I got on mine:

Resting, connected- 12.58V
Dome lights on- 12.3V
Ignition on- 11.9V
Cranking 9.6-9.8V

Alternator charging cold- 14.5V

If you've got a group 85, replace it with the larger group 35.

Ed


VOM = multimeter? If so, I have one. I'll check everything you did in the morning and post up.

According to Advance Auto, my battery is group 35


Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Vikas
If the battery is leaking, then not only it will die on you, it will hasten the corrosion of the battery cable clamps.

- Vikas


Corrosion of the whole car downhill of the battery! I don't know where they stick them on Subies but GM FWDs are good at rotting the subframe and other important stuff under their battery trays.


The battery on my STI is right behind the driver-side headlight.

You guys have me worried about the corrosion. I'm pretty good about maintenance, but haven't done more than clean the corrosion from the top of the battery and spray on CRC protectant in the past two years of owning the vehicle; never a full cleaning by removing the battery. I only noticed the boil-over that one time, so I didn't give it much thought. There was a good layer of white crud around the back of the of the battery and residue all along the back vertical edge of the battery. It was too dark last night and this morning after work to check what the area beneath the battery looks like, but some of the paint on the tie-down was eaten away. I'll make sure the dealer checks the area tomorrow.

I've got an appointment tomorrow at 1500 with the dealer. He said he would be able to test the battery and replace it then and there if it failed. I'm really torn about whether I should help it's demise along by leaving some lights on, do nothing and hope for a failure tomorrow or, if it does pass, simply go out and buy a battery on my own dime. All I know is that my old Legacy started up IMMEDIATELY last year with its 3-year-old yellow-top Optima, same oil, ambient temps and all.

Thanks again for all of the advice. I've got to get back to work!

 

[The_Jeff]

do nothing, it's too late now. My angle would be to let the dealer put their 50 amp quick charger on your battery to get it to "100% charged" according to their goofy machine and kill the battery doing THAT.

 

[Vikas]

When batteries can be bought close to $50 at Costco/Walmart, you are better of replacing it on your dime than wasting your time at the dealer to budge. Save your dealer battles for more important stuff if and when needed.

- Vikas

 

[Old Mustang Guy]

Agree with Vikas, Batteries often fail with no warning. My Mustang battery failed at 3 yr. with no warning. When I realized that my Escape battery was 5 yr. old I just went ahead and replaced it too. It seems that batteries are lower quality than they used to be.

 

[gathermewool]

I didn't think to grab the battery test report this time, but I was told it passed and was 100% charged this time. The CCA were 477A (rated is 550A.) I was in a rush this morning and didn't think to grab the data I said I would. I'll check it before I leave work at around 9 and post up.

I'm going to change out from Rotella T6 to AMSOIL Signature Series this weekend. If the slow starts don't go away (I'm assuming they won't) I'll contemplate buying a new battery. The thing is that the car isn't paaaaainfully slow starting, but close to 3-4X slower than in the summer time or after I start it fully warmed up (sitting only a couple of hours.)

Also, I'm thinking of getting an Optima Redtop, so $50 seems a little cheaper than I was expecting. I've just started looking around, so I really don't know how the cheapies compare to the more expensive options.

 

[GenSan]

I'd advise you to check out a Duralast gold if you want an Optima red top. You'll save yourself around $80-90 yet you'll still have the same warranty as an Optima: 3 yrs. free replacement and 8 years prorated.

If you still want the best, get a Sears Platinum (Odyssey) battery. I had an Optima red top, purchased at Sears, replaced after 3 years under warranty for a 34 group Sears Platinum battery and just paid the difference. It's a higher quality battery than the Optima red top in my experience.

 

[FZ1]

You got a 2008 model car and it doesn't come with a maintenance free battery? Is that the oem battery?

 

[rshaw125]

Costco for a battery.Their warranty is first rate and so are their batteries.I compared prices and CCA etc a few months ago for my Explorer. Costco were the best. Cheapest as well.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: GenSan
I'd advise you to check out a Duralast gold if you want an Optima red top. You'll save yourself around $80-90 yet you'll still have the same warranty as an Optima: 3 yrs. free replacement and 8 years prorated.

If you still want the best, get a Sears Platinum (Odyssey) battery. I had an Optima red top, purchased at Sears, replaced after 3 years under warranty for a 34 group Sears Platinum battery and just paid the difference. It's a higher quality battery than the Optima red top in my experience.


I checked on consumer reports and they rated the Duralast Gold 2nd for my group size. If I buy one, I'll probably end up going with them, since the autozone is pretty close, and they're every where.

Originally Posted By: FZ1
You got a 2008 model car and it doesn't come with a maintenance free battery? Is that the oem battery?


It's supposed to be maintenance free, and yes, it is the OEM battery. The only reason I checked the water level was because I noticed a lot of moisture on top of the battery while checking my oil at the gas station some time earlier in the year. The level was just above the plates, so the next chance I had I added a small amount of distilled, cleaned everything and sprayed some protectant. I think I cleaned and coated everything one time since then, and everything has been just fine since, barring the slow starts.

FWIW, I bought the '08 on 12/13/08, and it was the floor model. The battery could be a few years old, and may have been subjected to a few discharges due to people playing with the radio while waiting for something in the show room. I don't know, but that's my guess. With me, the car did sit for weeks on end before taking on DD duties, but when it was driven, it was driven for a while. Now, as a DD, it never sees time where I'm just sitting there with motor off listening to the radio.

Originally Posted By: rshaw125
Costco for a battery.Their warranty is first rate and so are their batteries.I compared prices and CCA etc a few months ago for my Explorer. Costco were the best. Cheapest as well.


Unfortunately, there aren't any Costcos near me. There's on in DE where my parents live, and I'll be visiting for the Holidays, so maybe I'll check them out while I'm down there. If I end up buying a battery, it'll be while I'm down visiting, since DE is tax free!

 

[gathermewool]

Oh, I forgot to add the results of my voltage checks just before leaving work tonight. The ambient temp was 19F and the car had been sitting for 6 hrs. I got all of the voltage readings from my scanguauge - the multimeter was at home

Sitting Voltage: 12.1
Key in ON position (engine off): 11.9
Headlights on (engine off): 11.5
Starting: 9.8

Seems low, but I don't really have enough experiene to draw any definitive conclusions.

 

[JHZR2]

12.1V sitting is effectively discharged at normal temps, need to look at a temp vs voltage chart for 19. 9.8V means very high impedance causing terminal voltage to drop too far. You likely dont have a multi-kW stater on a wrx, which would be the only reason to go that low. However, wintertime means slower chemical reactions, and a battery is a diffusion and mass transfer device first and foremost.

 

[edhackett]

Here's an email conversation that I had with a visiting friend who works for AAA. He caught my slow cranking with a hot engine when I picked him up for lunch. This was in response to my voltage readings posted earlier, which appear to be identical to yours.

on 11/24/2010 10:33 AM, Toucan wrote:
> as cold as it was, it would be auto replace at 65F but is considered marginal near freezing. cranking is the big tell-tale

> If it were me, I'd replace it (mine is almost there now)

Me:
New battery and oil change this weekend. Still not the fastest cranking, but it cranks slowly with authority. It's nice to see the voltage drop 0.01V with the dome lights in stead of 0.3V. Cranking voltage is now between 10.5 and 11.0, MUCH better.

I put in a Duralast Gold from Auto Zone. It's highly rated by CR and personal recommendations. I put in the larger group 35, so went from a 430 CCA OEM to 640 CCA.
___

What battery do you have exactly? Is it a Johnson Controls? Group 85 or 35? Subaru puts the smaller group 85 in manual cars and the 35 in automatics, Legacys, anyway. The 35 fits both.

Ed

 

[FZ1]

I see. Hope the dealer will replace it for you. Should crank easier with the synthetic.

 

[Vikas]

You can spend $200 or $50 on a battery. At first sign of any electrical trouble replace the battery. If that does not fix it, then start putting more effort in figuring out what is *really* wrong.

A $50 battery will last at least 3 years without any issues at all. The $200 might last longer but if you can put $17 per year on the battery, you can buy a new one every three years and never worry about them.

You have already went to dealer three times for this issue. All he has done so far is to put the electronic tester on it. You still do not know if all the connections were checked and all the voltage drops were recorded. You do not know if your starter is drawing too much current or is getting hot. You do not know if there is a corrosion on some connections. May be ground straps needs to be cleaned. If your fuel pressure regulator has a leak, it might take few seconds for the fuel pressure to build up after you give the ignition. This will give you the same symptoms of the engine cranking too long before starting.

All my diatribe is saying that "of all the things which could be wrong, putting the new battery is one of the cheapest option".

- Vikas

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: JHZR2
12.1V sitting is effectively discharged at normal temps, need to look at a temp vs voltage chart for 19. 9.8V means very high impedance causing terminal voltage to drop too far. You likely dont have a multi-kW stater on a wrx, which would be the only reason to go that low. However, wintertime means slower chemical reactions, and a battery is a diffusion and mass transfer device first and foremost.


Similar results with this morning’s check:

Sitting Voltage: 12.1
Key in ON position (engine off): 11.7
Headlights on (engine off): 11.3
Starting: 10.0

Even though temps were at 20F, it cranked over even slower this morning. I think the decision now is whether to make a stink with the dealer and demand a replacement or buy a new one. If I buy a new one, it’ll be when I head down to DE next week to visit family – no tax FTW!

It’s a low compression engine, so I can’t imagine the starter needing to be super powerful, either. My old high compression Civic SI seemed to crank over slower than any car I’ve had, but it seemed to be normal, since two other SI’s I heard were also slow to crank over, and did so regardless of cold/warm start.


Originally Posted By: edhackett


What battery do you have exactly? Is it a Johnson Controls? Group 85 or 35? Subaru puts the smaller group 85 in manual cars and the 35 in automatics, Legacys, anyway. The 35 fits both.

Ed


Thanks for sharing your email.

I’m not sure the type of battery, to be honest. I think some one posted earlier in this thread that it’s an Exide battery, right? I’m also not sure if the OEM battery is a group 35, but the Advance Auto list showed 35 as the replacement size. There’s not a whole heck of a lot of room there, so I’m not sure anything bigger would be good idea. I’ll stop by AA or AZ tomorrow and compare sizes. Do any of the auto chains have proper load testers?

Originally Posted By: FZ1
I see. Hope the dealer will replace it for you. Should crank easier with the synthetic.


I don’t think they’ll replace it unless it fails the test; maybe if I make a stink as mentioned earlier. Now that it has passed the test AND shown to be fully charged, I think making a stink will be the only way I have a chance of getting it replaced.

Originally Posted By: Vikas
You can spend $200 or $50 on a battery. At first sign of any electrical trouble replace the battery. If that does not fix it, then start putting more effort in figuring out what is *really* wrong.

A $50 battery will last at least 3 years without any issues at all. The $200 might last longer but if you can put $17 per year on the battery, you can buy a new one every three years and never worry about them.

You have already went to dealer three times for this issue. All he has done so far is to put the electronic tester on it. You still do not know if all the connections were checked and all the voltage drops were recorded. You do not know if your starter is drawing too much current or is getting hot. You do not know if there is a corrosion on some connections. May be ground straps needs to be cleaned. If your fuel pressure regulator has a leak, it might take few seconds for the fuel pressure to build up after you give the ignition. This will give you the same symptoms of the engine cranking too long before starting.

All my diatribe is saying that "of all the things which could be wrong, putting the new battery is one of the cheapest option".

- Vikas


That’s really good advice. Based on the batteries history, and the fact that it has experienced boil-over at least once, I think replacing it, whether by making a stink with the dealer or forking over the cash out-of-pocket, is my best bet and the best place to start. K.I.S.S., right?

My question is whether a more-expensive battery might not only last longer, but start with higher CCA, reserve capacity, etc. CR has good ratings, but instead of giving actual numbers, they use the filled circles, and all of the top batteries show better or much better than average, which is reassuring when buying any brand-name battery, but not very helpful for getting the best bang for the buck.

 

[Vikas]

Do you have another car? Do you have a jump start thingy? Nice massive jumper cables? If so, try boosting your battery with another and see if the car cranks faster.

As I said, there are many methodical ways to go about your problem but still the simplest is to buy the $50 battery! Why do you need to get the best bang for the buck and research in to it? I know this is BITOG and we all have OCD but there comes a time when one has to say "the heck with it" and act on it rather than procrastinating any further. I know I am not immune from that symptom myself

- Vikas

 

[FZ1]

Alternate. Tell the dealer you have shopped batteries and have found one for $50-60. Tell the dealer you had rather do business with him than the other vendor. See if he will replace the battery for $50-60.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
Do you have another car? Do you have a jump start thingy? Nice massive jumper cables? If so, try boosting your battery with another and see if the car cranks faster.

As I said, there are many methodical ways to go about your problem but still the simplest is to buy the $50 battery! Why do you need to get the best bang for the buck and research in to it? I know this is BITOG and we all have OCD but there comes a time when one has to say "the heck with it" and act on it rather than procrastinating any further. I know I am not immune from that symptom myself

- Vikas


Answered your own question there! haha Seriously, though, it has nothing to do with having the best and most expensive. The "heck with it" point will come when comparing similarly priced and rated batteries. However, like anything that costs money, there are good and bad bananas, and sometimes the moderately-priced will outperform the most expensive. I don't necessarily need the best, and won't pay $50 more for 50 more CCA, but if I can buy a $100 battery that performs as well as a $200 battery and moderately better than than a $70 battery, then why wouldn't I go for it? For me, the "heck with it" point would be between similarly priced batteries of similar quality.


Originally Posted By: FZ1
Alternate. Tell the dealer you have shopped batteries and have found one for $50-60. Tell the dealer you had rather do business with him than the other vendor. See if he will replace the battery for $50-60.


I called back and spoke with the service manager. I told him that I felt really uncomfortable with the slow starting, and was hoping they might consider replacing the battery based on the slow starts, not the tests. I let him know that I was replacing the battery regardless, but figured that it never hurts to ask. Long story short, I'm going to leave the car with them over night next Tuesday, so they can see for themselves. They'll give me a loaner.

They've got to replace the seat frame under warranty for making noise and two other issues while they have it, so it won't be much extra effort to check or replace the battery while they're at it. I'll let you guys know how things turn out.