Battery Test Report: Input Needed

[gathermewool]

I changed the oil from Rotella T6 5W-40 to AMSOIL Signature Series 0w30 yesterday (Friday) evening before going back to work for a few more hours. When I left work yesterday, this afternoon when I went to work and when I left work 45 min ago, the car started a lot quicker. The temps were 5-10F higher than the past week, so I'm not sure if the oil had anything to do with it at all.

For reference, here's a comparison of the cold-flow properties of the two oils:

Amsoil:
Dyn Visc (-35C): 5927 cP
Pour Point: -51C

T6:
Dyn Visc (-30C): 6000 cP
Pour Point: -42C

With out knowing the properties at exactly 20F, I'd guess that the above numbers probably don't mean much, but who knows. At ~5200 miles on the T6 when I dumped it, I'd guess that it wasn't even close to the point where it might have thickened due to oxidation. I'm not even sure how oxidative thickening would effect an oil's dynamic visc and PP, to be honest.

Unfortunately for the battery replacement attempt, the higher projected overnight temps combined with the better cold-flow properties of the Amsoil might mean I'll be wasting my time leaving the car overnight. They've other warranty items to take care of, so it won't be a total loss, but the whole point of leaving it over night was to show them how slowly the car cold-starts.

 

[FZ1]

Alternative 2. Take it to another dealer re the battery.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
Alternative 2. Take it to another dealer re the battery.


If the battery passes their test, too, then what incentive would the other dealer have to take my word for it? I guess either dealer could simply lie to Subaru of America and say it failed, letting them eat the cost. I guess I could drop the car off Tuesday night and leave the light on a for a few hours, too. I wouldn't feel right doing that, to be honest. The air is thin up here on my hight moral ground, though, so maybe I'm not thinking clearly enough

 

[SubLGT]

Have you heard of the phrase "Paralysis by Analysis"?

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: SubLGT
Have you heard of the phrase "Paralysis by Analysis"?

I'm an engineer, bubba. It's what I do

Seriously, though, don't read too much into the analysis. I noticed some really slow cold starts, so I posted my experience looking for advice while trying to get the dealer to replace it under warranty while working on other warranty items. Some one posted some data, so I took the 5 seconds to check my scangage a couple of times before leaving. When all is said and done, and if anything changes at all after a battery replacement, I'll post up and the info might help other owners.

 

[Mr_Incredible]

Life's too short and my time and aggrivation is worth more than replacement costs for a battery more than half gone.

Buy a new one, get a few bucks for your old one, and carry on.

At least, that's what I'd do, if anyone ever asks...

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Mr_Incredible
Life's too short and my time and aggrivation is worth more than replacement costs for a battery more than half gone.

Buy a new one, get a few bucks for your old one, and carry on.

At least, that's what I'd do, if anyone ever asks...


That's the thing; there's no aggravation or time being wasted. I've been working 12+hrs studying for training lately, so researching mods, tracking gifts, my gf and this battery issue are pretty much all I've had to occupy the tween time during breaks.

Also, it's not so slow that it obviously needs to be replaced (at least not to me, hence the post,) and the somewhat warmer weather and Amsoil in the sump SEEM to have sped the starts up. I've literally gone from relatively slow duh-duh-duh-kinda-catch-duh-duh-start to duh-duh-duh-duh-start with the only diff being 5-10F temp rise and switching from T6 to Amsoil. When I check voltages, they're the same (or lower by .1V) as what I posted earlier while experiencing slow starts, which leads me to believe that maybe switching oil had SOMETHING to do with it. However, the starts are still slower than warm starts, which is to some what be expected, and I don't believe the difference between Rotella T6 and AMSOIL Signature Series would be significant enough to cause faster starts in 20-30F weather.

 

[SubLGT]

Have you visited here:
http://www.batteryfaq.org/

 

[Mr_Incredible]

I see your point. If it's easy to balance into your life and promotes the general welfare, have fun.

Sometimes things like this gather momentum and take on a life of their own, though. Or, as I've told my son..."There's a fine line between being persistant and being a stalker. Be careful you don't trip over it."

 

[Mr_Incredible]

And on the other hand, maybe it isn't the battery at all. I hate electrical stuff.

 

[Vikas]

The thing is unless battery is changed, he won't know if the starter is the problem.

 

[03cvpi]

Charge the battery to full and do a load test on the starter, it may be that the starter is drawing too much amperage and may be and indication that the starter is failing slowly. Also is there a parasitic load on the battery when the car is at rest?

Take the car for a thirty minute drive and stop at a local batteries plus if you have one in your area and have them do the load test. 100 amp load for ten seconds, if it passes that, I'd look at the starter.

 

[gathermewool]

Man, was that a rough freaking final. 7 hrs 10 minutes, and I finished with only 2 minutes to spare...By finished, I mean got fed up and said to heck with it...

Anyway, I dropped the car off at the dealer yesterday and got a call today. The service guy said the battery passed the third test, but says that the battery needs to be charged. :face palm: I told him that I drive the car every single day, and that nothing is ever left on. I get in, drive the car, get to where I'm going and shut it off.

I requested they check for anything that might be draining the battery. I doubt they'll do more than charge the battery and retest it in the AM, but it was worth a try. I'm going to make a stink to see if they'll replace it, but if they don't by the time the other warranty issues are dealt with, then I'll be buying a new battery on my own dime. I'm leaning toward Pepboys's Bosch, but kind of want to buy an Optima red-top battery. I might even take a previous poster's advice and just by a cheap battery and replace it every few years.

On a side note, the 2011 Legacy with the CVT they gave me as a loaner is pretty nice. It's a lot looser-feeling, but comfortable, and it has a lot more sound deadening than my STI! The CVT is pretty smooth, but the initial throttle input feels a bit disjointed, as does the steering input. I'm not sure if it's my bias coming from an STI, but the Legacy is no fun to drive at all; just a comfortable point-A-to-B'er. Another odd feature is the E-brake. An e-brake handle is depressed to actuate the e-brake. Pulling the handle releases the brake.

 

[bodeh6]

Originally Posted By: gathermewool
Originally Posted By: bodeh6
I just replaced the original OEM Subaru battery after 4.5 years on my 06 Legacy. The last week it would hardly crank then I had to replace it today.


Was it a slow death or did it just begin this winter?

What'd you end up going with to replace it?


A week before it died, it was hard starting. I though it would last until my oil change the following week, but it actually wouldn't start that morning

. Replaced it with new OEM Subaru battery.

 

[FZ1]

I won't be buying a Suburu,after hearing how Chincy they are.

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: FZ1
I won't be buying a Suburu,after hearing how Chincy they are.


A Subaru or a Subaru battery? I think it's the luck of the draw with a lot of manufacturers. My STI has had zero engine issues :knocks on wood: Here's what I've had to have fixed in the 32kmi of ownership:

1. Battery - it's 3 years old and the car was on the showroom floor for God knows how long.

2. Creaking seat - they're replacing the seat frame, as it's "not a serviceable item."

3. Rattle in the back - put some felt tape over where the rear seat clips in. Problem solved.

4. Fuel cap strap broke - replaced with a whole new cap. Seemd odd to have to replace the entire cap just because the strap broke.

5. Turbo seal leakage? - Noticed some oil near the cold-side inlet, as well as an oil stain on the skid guard.

6. Slight snap/clunk coming from the right front while turning left over uneven pavement - they can't reproduce it, but have the car all day today to try to.

7. Slight grinding or crunchiness while cold going into second.

That's it! I'd rather have these chincy issues fixed now, under warranty, then to wait for the entire car to fall apart at 80kmi. The battery is kind of a non-issue, too. If they won't replace it, I'll replace it myself.

 

[gathermewool]

Just got back from the dealer. Two things:

1. After yesterday's test showed that the battery needed to be charged, they did so over night. Today's test showed it as passing. I ask him why, if I drive the car every single day, would it need to be charged? Furthermore, I charged it over night already before the last passing test, so what would cause it to need charging again after only a week? He said there was nothing he could do, since the test passed.

2. The service manager said that all STI's burn oil, and the oil residue I saw was normal. I asked him how it got there, and his answer was that, due to blowby, some oil always gets into the intake. I told him that I don't burn any, and that what he's saying doesn't explain how oil was getting on the OUTSIDE of the turbo. He said that the intake wasn't necessarily pressure tight, and that I would notice oil in the intercooler, too. I told him that the intercooler was on the INSIDE of the intake, and that most turbo cars do show oil in there, but not a significant amount. I also said that the intake should be pressure tight. Otherwise, there would be vacuum/boost leaks. He disagreed.

In the end, and the most alarming thing he said, was that it wasn't a turbo oil seal, it was simply oil from blowby leaking out from the turbine housing. I'm not sure how it would leak out of a pressure-tight system, but that was his assumption. For now, I'm not seeing any decrease in oil level over my OCI, so I'll let it go for now. Am I off base for thinking everything he said was a crock, though?

 

[gathermewool]

I was debating which battery to get while stuffing my face all over the holiday week last week -plant shuts down for the week

- and finally decided on the Diehard Platinum. I originally wanted to get the top-rated Bosch from Pepboys, but there are no Pepboys near me, only near my parents (where I was for the holidays.)

Long story short: I've had the battery in for a week, but temps have been in the mid 30s, so there was no real way to tell whether the new battery made any difference, since the old Subaru battery was only causing very slow starts when 20 or less. Well, the temps have been dropping all of this week - 20s for the past couple of mornings and 12F this morning - and the car has started right up every single time, as if it were a warm summer morning!

I may have gone overboard with the $200 Platinum, but I do drive through NYC and Bostons areas (terrible roads) and some bumpy backroads, so maybe the AGM Platinum battery will hold up better to that kind of abuse. I know the Yellow-top I had in my old Subie has lasted a long time.

Regardless, thanks for every one's input. I'm glad I decided to forego further dealer headaches and simply replace the battery on my own. The difference in cold starts alone give me the peace of mind to justify the money spent.

 

[Vikas]

I told you so


Seriously, you could spend say $50 every 3 years and not even think about battery ever. I do not understand why people don't do it.

- Vikas

 

[gathermewool]

Originally Posted By: Vikas
I told you so


Seriously, you could spend say $50 every 3 years and not even think about battery ever. I do not understand why people don't do it.

- Vikas


I was debating the cheapo battery, which would be a lot lighter, too, but wanted to prove or disprove to myself whether the more expensive battery is worth it. If this one doesn't last 4+ years trouble free I'll try a cheaper solution and replace it every three years like you suggest. Financially (and weight-wise, albeit very not much lighter,) the $50 battery replaced every 3 years would make a lot more sense than the $200 battery unless:

1. The $200 battery lasted a lot longer - 6 years+ (not 4X, but the convenience of not having to touch a battery for 6 years is worth something.)

2. The $200 battery never corroded, leaked, etc (goes along with not having to touch the battery for longer.)

3. The $200 battery performs better over its life compared to the $50 battery - $200 battery has higher initial CA/CCA and RC, allowing more margin to failure if a light is left and degradation over its life (may be included in #1, if the cheaper battery performs sufficiently for 3 years before the slow starts begin vs 6+ for the more expensive; I don't know)