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Battery brands
- Thread starter buck91
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Here is a website that claims to be upto date as to who makes which brand battery for whom, but it is not so easy to find the info one seeks:
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm
And while any manufactured product can have flaws leading to premature failure, predominatnly in lead acid batteries, how the battery is treated will have much much more effect on longevity durability than the sticker placed on its side or the manuufacturer or the warranty.
The most basic battery kept 100% charged its whole life will easily outlast the battery which lives in teh 80 to 90% state of charge range.
Without knowing how any particular battery was treated, tales of longevity good or bad are completely and overwhelmingly meaningless.
The Vehicles voltage regulator plays a huge part in returning and keeping any particular battery as close to 100% charged as possible. Ideal absorption voltages which can return a battery to 100% full quickest vary among makes of batteries, and some batteries can certainly be better matched to a brand of vehicle and its allowed charging voltages.
You want ultimate battery longevity, keep it fully charged as often as possible. That will have more of an effect of how long it lasts than who made the battery or who put their sticker on it or who decided to warranty it for how long.
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm
And while any manufactured product can have flaws leading to premature failure, predominatnly in lead acid batteries, how the battery is treated will have much much more effect on longevity durability than the sticker placed on its side or the manuufacturer or the warranty.
The most basic battery kept 100% charged its whole life will easily outlast the battery which lives in teh 80 to 90% state of charge range.
Without knowing how any particular battery was treated, tales of longevity good or bad are completely and overwhelmingly meaningless.
The Vehicles voltage regulator plays a huge part in returning and keeping any particular battery as close to 100% charged as possible. Ideal absorption voltages which can return a battery to 100% full quickest vary among makes of batteries, and some batteries can certainly be better matched to a brand of vehicle and its allowed charging voltages.
You want ultimate battery longevity, keep it fully charged as often as possible. That will have more of an effect of how long it lasts than who made the battery or who put their sticker on it or who decided to warranty it for how long.
Back in October I paid $105 for a group 35 Walmart Everstart Maxx at Walmart.
Don't remember seeing any $48 car batteries.
When I buy a battery I carry a DVM and pick the highest voltage (among the freshest date codes).
This time all were dated 10/15, but voltages ranged from 12.3-12.7V.
Don't remember seeing any $48 car batteries.
When I buy a battery I carry a DVM and pick the highest voltage (among the freshest date codes).
This time all were dated 10/15, but voltages ranged from 12.3-12.7V.
Originally Posted By: simple_gifts
Quote:
As always, get a fresh date code battery.
Batteries @ Walmart now have a letter code for the month; a quick call to the support line and they will tell you to what month the letter corresponds. The support line actually provided more info than the flip-chart did @ the store.
As much as the support line insisted there should be no batteries on the shelf > 1 year old, I assured her there were plenty.
Is the letter code more than just "A" for January, "B" for February? Did they use the German Enigma machine to encode it?
Quote:
As always, get a fresh date code battery.
Batteries @ Walmart now have a letter code for the month; a quick call to the support line and they will tell you to what month the letter corresponds. The support line actually provided more info than the flip-chart did @ the store.
As much as the support line insisted there should be no batteries on the shelf > 1 year old, I assured her there were plenty.
Is the letter code more than just "A" for January, "B" for February? Did they use the German Enigma machine to encode it?
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Here is a website that claims to be upto date as to who makes which brand battery for whom, but it is not so easy to find the info one seeks:
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm
And while any manufactured product can have flaws leading to premature failure, predominatnly in lead acid batteries, how the battery is treated will have much much more effect on longevity durability than the sticker placed on its side or the manuufacturer or the warranty.
The most basic battery kept 100% charged its whole life will easily outlast the battery which lives in teh 80 to 90% state of charge range.
Without knowing how any particular battery was treated, tales of longevity good or bad are completely and overwhelmingly meaningless.
The Vehicles voltage regulator plays a huge part in returning and keeping any particular battery as close to 100% charged as possible. Ideal absorption voltages which can return a battery to 100% full quickest vary among makes of batteries, and some batteries can certainly be better matched to a brand of vehicle and its allowed charging voltages.
You want ultimate battery longevity, keep it fully charged as often as possible. That will have more of an effect of how long it lasts than who made the battery or who put their sticker on it or who decided to warranty it for how long.
I remember in the late 1950s that my Dad would fool with the springs in the external voltage regulator to get the charging rate proper. The car had a generator vs an alternator. Don't have the details as I was 5 or so.
Here is a website that claims to be upto date as to who makes which brand battery for whom, but it is not so easy to find the info one seeks:
http://jgdarden.com/batteryfaq/batbrand.htm
And while any manufactured product can have flaws leading to premature failure, predominatnly in lead acid batteries, how the battery is treated will have much much more effect on longevity durability than the sticker placed on its side or the manuufacturer or the warranty.
The most basic battery kept 100% charged its whole life will easily outlast the battery which lives in teh 80 to 90% state of charge range.
Without knowing how any particular battery was treated, tales of longevity good or bad are completely and overwhelmingly meaningless.
The Vehicles voltage regulator plays a huge part in returning and keeping any particular battery as close to 100% charged as possible. Ideal absorption voltages which can return a battery to 100% full quickest vary among makes of batteries, and some batteries can certainly be better matched to a brand of vehicle and its allowed charging voltages.
You want ultimate battery longevity, keep it fully charged as often as possible. That will have more of an effect of how long it lasts than who made the battery or who put their sticker on it or who decided to warranty it for how long.
I remember in the late 1950s that my Dad would fool with the springs in the external voltage regulator to get the charging rate proper. The car had a generator vs an alternator. Don't have the details as I was 5 or so.
Originally Posted By: rickmeseke
Either valupower $48 or aap autocraft with coupons and speed perks you can knock $40+ off.
Exactly w do you do that? Seems like all their promos require a ship to home order from their website.
Either valupower $48 or aap autocraft with coupons and speed perks you can knock $40+ off.
Exactly w do you do that? Seems like all their promos require a ship to home order from their website.
Originally Posted By: Donald
I remember in the late 1950s that my Dad would fool with the springs in the external voltage regulator to get the charging rate proper. The car had a generator vs an alternator. Don't have the details as I was 5 or so.
I just bypassed the rather wacky voltage regulator in my engine computer, and installed an Adjustable voltage regulator. I removed the potted voltage trip pot, and ran wires to a 10 turn potentiometer with turns counter on my dashboard and can choose voltage as I drive.
I can choose any voltage between 12.8 and 15.3v.
I did this as I deeply cycle a Northstar battery, whose absorption voltage is a 14.46 at 77f, and my ECMs voltage regulator allowed 14.9 into this depleted battery with 50+ amps, which is too high, though the battery had dealt with it for 2 years before my modification.
The original ECM VR would also prematurely drop to 13.7v when the depleted battery was still needing mid 14's for maximum recharging, which I found quite annoying, as while 12 amps might be flowing into a depleted battery at 13.7v, over 40 amps might be required to bring it to and hold it at 14.7v.
This wide spread in charging amps at those 2 voltages was more extreme with a flooded marine battery than it is with this AGM battery, as the AGM has less resistance and does not need as high of an electrical pressure to gobble up the amps.
While this modification gives me the warm and fuzzies it is hardly a necessity. However in a theme related to this forum, it can reduce engine wear.
When overnight cold and a depleted battery, when started the original VR would seek 14.9v, and right on startup the alternator would be maxed out providing 70+ amps.
I can now turn the voltage regulator down to 12.8v, start the engine with a depleted battery, and only ~23 amps are required from the alternator. Actual amperage depends on level of depletion.
So on a cold start the alternator presents much less load on an engine whose cold thick oil is too thick to lube properly.
When the temp needle climbs off the C mark I crank up voltage to 14.5v, and if idling, I can easily hear the engine note change as the alternator maxes out again at 70+ amps at 800 rpm.
I've also thermal epoxied a K type thermocouple for my DMM to the Stator casing. preliminary data shows that idling when hot, making 32 amps total has alternator temperature at a steady 139f, but driving 25 to 40mph and making 50+ amps total has it at 119F. 50+ amps maxed out while parked and idling with a hot engine, and alternator temperature shot upto 159f from 139f in ~ 30 seconds.
I expected parked idle speed would increase the alternator temperature, but I was surprised at the extent to which it does in my vehicle, and how quickly the temperature rises at max load at idle.
I've not done more testing at this point, as it is distracting and I hate distracted drivers, and hypocrisy.
I want to see how highway speeds affect alternator temperature when alternator is maxed out feeding a depleted battery and powering all electrical loads, compared to parked and idling.
I remember in the late 1950s that my Dad would fool with the springs in the external voltage regulator to get the charging rate proper. The car had a generator vs an alternator. Don't have the details as I was 5 or so.
I just bypassed the rather wacky voltage regulator in my engine computer, and installed an Adjustable voltage regulator. I removed the potted voltage trip pot, and ran wires to a 10 turn potentiometer with turns counter on my dashboard and can choose voltage as I drive.
I can choose any voltage between 12.8 and 15.3v.
I did this as I deeply cycle a Northstar battery, whose absorption voltage is a 14.46 at 77f, and my ECMs voltage regulator allowed 14.9 into this depleted battery with 50+ amps, which is too high, though the battery had dealt with it for 2 years before my modification.
The original ECM VR would also prematurely drop to 13.7v when the depleted battery was still needing mid 14's for maximum recharging, which I found quite annoying, as while 12 amps might be flowing into a depleted battery at 13.7v, over 40 amps might be required to bring it to and hold it at 14.7v.
This wide spread in charging amps at those 2 voltages was more extreme with a flooded marine battery than it is with this AGM battery, as the AGM has less resistance and does not need as high of an electrical pressure to gobble up the amps.
While this modification gives me the warm and fuzzies it is hardly a necessity. However in a theme related to this forum, it can reduce engine wear.
When overnight cold and a depleted battery, when started the original VR would seek 14.9v, and right on startup the alternator would be maxed out providing 70+ amps.
I can now turn the voltage regulator down to 12.8v, start the engine with a depleted battery, and only ~23 amps are required from the alternator. Actual amperage depends on level of depletion.
So on a cold start the alternator presents much less load on an engine whose cold thick oil is too thick to lube properly.
When the temp needle climbs off the C mark I crank up voltage to 14.5v, and if idling, I can easily hear the engine note change as the alternator maxes out again at 70+ amps at 800 rpm.
I've also thermal epoxied a K type thermocouple for my DMM to the Stator casing. preliminary data shows that idling when hot, making 32 amps total has alternator temperature at a steady 139f, but driving 25 to 40mph and making 50+ amps total has it at 119F. 50+ amps maxed out while parked and idling with a hot engine, and alternator temperature shot upto 159f from 139f in ~ 30 seconds.
I expected parked idle speed would increase the alternator temperature, but I was surprised at the extent to which it does in my vehicle, and how quickly the temperature rises at max load at idle.
I've not done more testing at this point, as it is distracting and I hate distracted drivers, and hypocrisy.
I want to see how highway speeds affect alternator temperature when alternator is maxed out feeding a depleted battery and powering all electrical loads, compared to parked and idling.
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Originally Posted By: Donald
I remember in the late 1950s that my Dad would fool with the springs in the external voltage regulator to get the charging rate proper. The car had a generator vs an alternator. Don't have the details as I was 5 or so.
I just bypassed the rather wacky voltage regulator in my engine computer, and installed an Adjustable voltage regulator. I removed the potted voltage trip pot, and ran wires to a 10 turn potentiometer with turns counter on my dashboard and can choose voltage as I drive.
I can choose any voltage between 12.8 and 15.3v.
I did this as I deeply cycle a Northstar battery, whose absorption voltage is a 14.46 at 77f, and my ECMs voltage regulator allowed 14.9 into this depleted battery with 50+ amps, which is too high, though the battery had dealt with it for 2 years before my modification.
The original ECM VR would also prematurely drop to 13.7v when the depleted battery was still needing mid 14's for maximum recharging, which I found quite annoying, as while 12 amps might be flowing into a depleted battery at 13.7v, over 40 amps might be required to bring it to and hold it at 14.7v.
This wide spread in charging amps at those 2 voltages was more extreme with a flooded marine battery than it is with this AGM battery, as the AGM has less resistance and does not need as high of an electrical pressure to gobble up the amps.
While this modification gives me the warm and fuzzies it is hardly a necessity. However in a theme related to this forum, it can reduce engine wear.
When overnight cold and a depleted battery, when started the original VR would seek 14.9v, and right on startup the alternator would be maxed out providing 70+ amps.
I can now turn the voltage regulator down to 12.8v, start the engine with a depleted battery, and only ~23 amps are required from the alternator. Actual amperage depends on level of depletion.
So on a cold start the alternator presents much less load on an engine whose cold thick oil is too thick to lube properly.
When the temp needle climbs off the C mark I crank up voltage to 14.5v, and if idling, I can easily hear the engine note change as the alternator maxes out again at 70+ amps at 800 rpm.
I've also thermal epoxied a K type thermocouple for my DMM to the Stator casing. preliminary data shows that idling when hot, making 32 amps total has alternator temperature at a steady 139f, but driving 25 to 40mph and making 50+ amps total has it at 119F. 50+ amps maxed out while parked and idling with a hot engine, and alternator temperature shot upto 159f from 139f in ~ 30 seconds.
I expected parked idle speed would increase the alternator temperature, but I was surprised at the extent to which it does in my vehicle, and how quickly the temperature rises at max load at idle.
I've not done more testing at this point, as it is distracting and I hate distracted drivers, and hypocrisy.
I want to see how highway speeds affect alternator temperature when alternator is maxed out feeding a depleted battery and powering all electrical loads, compared to parked and idling.
I think you have taken the science of battery charging to a new level in your vehicle.
Now how about something to control spark advance?
Originally Posted By: Donald
I remember in the late 1950s that my Dad would fool with the springs in the external voltage regulator to get the charging rate proper. The car had a generator vs an alternator. Don't have the details as I was 5 or so.
I just bypassed the rather wacky voltage regulator in my engine computer, and installed an Adjustable voltage regulator. I removed the potted voltage trip pot, and ran wires to a 10 turn potentiometer with turns counter on my dashboard and can choose voltage as I drive.
I can choose any voltage between 12.8 and 15.3v.
I did this as I deeply cycle a Northstar battery, whose absorption voltage is a 14.46 at 77f, and my ECMs voltage regulator allowed 14.9 into this depleted battery with 50+ amps, which is too high, though the battery had dealt with it for 2 years before my modification.
The original ECM VR would also prematurely drop to 13.7v when the depleted battery was still needing mid 14's for maximum recharging, which I found quite annoying, as while 12 amps might be flowing into a depleted battery at 13.7v, over 40 amps might be required to bring it to and hold it at 14.7v.
This wide spread in charging amps at those 2 voltages was more extreme with a flooded marine battery than it is with this AGM battery, as the AGM has less resistance and does not need as high of an electrical pressure to gobble up the amps.
While this modification gives me the warm and fuzzies it is hardly a necessity. However in a theme related to this forum, it can reduce engine wear.
When overnight cold and a depleted battery, when started the original VR would seek 14.9v, and right on startup the alternator would be maxed out providing 70+ amps.
I can now turn the voltage regulator down to 12.8v, start the engine with a depleted battery, and only ~23 amps are required from the alternator. Actual amperage depends on level of depletion.
So on a cold start the alternator presents much less load on an engine whose cold thick oil is too thick to lube properly.
When the temp needle climbs off the C mark I crank up voltage to 14.5v, and if idling, I can easily hear the engine note change as the alternator maxes out again at 70+ amps at 800 rpm.
I've also thermal epoxied a K type thermocouple for my DMM to the Stator casing. preliminary data shows that idling when hot, making 32 amps total has alternator temperature at a steady 139f, but driving 25 to 40mph and making 50+ amps total has it at 119F. 50+ amps maxed out while parked and idling with a hot engine, and alternator temperature shot upto 159f from 139f in ~ 30 seconds.
I expected parked idle speed would increase the alternator temperature, but I was surprised at the extent to which it does in my vehicle, and how quickly the temperature rises at max load at idle.
I've not done more testing at this point, as it is distracting and I hate distracted drivers, and hypocrisy.
I want to see how highway speeds affect alternator temperature when alternator is maxed out feeding a depleted battery and powering all electrical loads, compared to parked and idling.
I think you have taken the science of battery charging to a new level in your vehicle.
Now how about something to control spark advance?
Originally Posted By: zzyzzx
Originally Posted By: rickmeseke
Either valupower $48 or aap autocraft with coupons and speed perks you can knock $40+ off.
Exactly w do you do that? Seems like all their promos require a ship to home order from their website.
I just buy them online and pick up at "my store" 30 minutes later. I recently replaced by 5 year old Autocraft gold (group 24) using a discount coupon and saved something like 38 dollars.
Originally Posted By: rickmeseke
Either valupower $48 or aap autocraft with coupons and speed perks you can knock $40+ off.
Exactly w do you do that? Seems like all their promos require a ship to home order from their website.
I just buy them online and pick up at "my store" 30 minutes later. I recently replaced by 5 year old Autocraft gold (group 24) using a discount coupon and saved something like 38 dollars.
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
Ideal absorption voltages which can return a battery to 100% full quickest vary among makes of batteries, and some batteries can certainly be better matched to a brand of vehicle and its allowed charging voltages.
It's well propagated that AGM and gel batteries have maximum charging voltage constraints, which if not heeded can resulted in undesired consequences.
But what about vehicles not originally equipped with AGM batteries having them retrofit during replacement?
If the VR is set for a value 0.1-0.3 lower than the optimum called for by the AGM manufacturer, will it suffer by being chronically less than fully charged, or just take longer to get there?
Extra cost aside, the other factors involved make them seem like more hassle than they're worth, at least as a retrofit, and in situations where the usage doesn't require them.
Ideal absorption voltages which can return a battery to 100% full quickest vary among makes of batteries, and some batteries can certainly be better matched to a brand of vehicle and its allowed charging voltages.
It's well propagated that AGM and gel batteries have maximum charging voltage constraints, which if not heeded can resulted in undesired consequences.
But what about vehicles not originally equipped with AGM batteries having them retrofit during replacement?
If the VR is set for a value 0.1-0.3 lower than the optimum called for by the AGM manufacturer, will it suffer by being chronically less than fully charged, or just take longer to get there?
Extra cost aside, the other factors involved make them seem like more hassle than they're worth, at least as a retrofit, and in situations where the usage doesn't require them.
The Gel batteries were/are limited in both maximum charge voltage and maximum charge amperage. Amperage is not to exceed a certain percentage of its capacity. I think this was about 20 amps maximum for a 100AH battery( 20 hr rate) and 14.2v was the maximum voltage.
If these charging parameters are exceeded on Gelled electrolyte batteries then voids can form in the gelled electrolyte, and where voids formed, they remain and that portion of the plates becomes forever useless.
The gel batteries main benefit is it can handle the super deep discharges and retain more of their capacity in deep cycle usage. They are also more resistant to Partial state of charge cycling compared to AGM or flooded/wet batteries
AGM batteries absorption voltages range from 14.2v to 14.9v among different manufacturers, and this is for a 77 or 80F battery.
SOME agms are limited to no more than 30% of their capacity, 30 amps for a 100AH battery.
Some other AGMS say no less than X amount when deeply cycled. Odyssey says that when their group31 100AH battery is discharged to 50%, which is around 12.2 rested volts, it Must then receive a 40 amp charge rate until battery terminal voltage achieves 14.7v At 77F, And then 14.7v is to be held for 4 hours, or until amperage tapers to under a certain level, likely 0.5 amps.
That is the Ideal charge algorithm for the Odyssey AGM when deeply cycled. Anything less is simply less than ideal. How unideal it is, is hard to say.
In general the lower state of charge the battery achieves on recharge, and the longer it remains less than 100%, capacity is being compromised.
Can it be restored? Maybe. AGM batteries do not like to be tickled to death when deeply discharged, with low currents. Even the lower $$ AGM batteries that say no more than a 30% rate, will appreciate amperages that approach this rate. Higher $$ AGMs like Concorde's Lifeline, Enersys' Odyssey and Northstar AGM say the maximum charge current is several times the battery capacity, as long as 14.7v is not exceeded, you can initially feed an Odyssey group31 100AH AGM 500 amps. Sure 14.7v will be reached practically instantly at the battery terminals but if the voltage is held at 14.7v, and perhaps lowered as the battery warms up, then the More amps the better!
So please disregard the 'trickle' charge mentality when recharging well depleted AGMS. Aim for 30% of their capacity, and if An Odyssey or Northstar or Lifeline, aim for 40% or even more, and aim to hold 14.2 to 14.4v for Lifeline, and 14.46v for Northstar, and 14.7v for Odyssey , all at 77 to 80F temperature for as long as it takes for amperage to taper to 0.5 amps per 100AH of capacity at the standard 20 hour rate.
if battery temperature is hotter than 77F, lower those maximum allowed voltages. If battery is colder than 77f, then exceed those maximums.
But if that Odyssey battery was put in the vehicle fully charged, and the vehicle daily driven, and never discharged with the engine off, then that ideal recharge algorithm above is not required. Actually starting a modern vehicle consumes Soooo very little of the battery capacity it can be kept 99.95% charged as long as the alternator can keep it over 13.6v with all the loads running.
Less than Ideal absorption voltages on a nearly fully charged AGM battery that is rarely cycles below 95% don't really matter. Less than Ideal recharges on a deeply cycled AGM will compromise capacity on the first cycle and really become noticeable on the 4 deep cycle as the battery will behave like a much much smaller battery
But if the vehicle's Voltage regulator decides that 15.0 volts is to be held on a 110F battery, well the AGM battery will vent, and can dry out. Cumulative damage one might be completely unaware of.
If the AGM is accidently or Intentionally deeply cycled, then the charging currents are much more critical, and achieving a true 100% charge ASAP, ASOftenAP, is the key to excellent battery longevity.
IF a new, healthy AGM is accidentally discharged and the alternator is to be the only charging source, Not only is the alternator going to be worked very hard for at least an hour, but at least 4 more hours of driving would be required before the battery could possibly be anywhere near the ideal 100% charged range.
If the AGM is aged mostly lived its life in the 85 to 90% charged range, then Absorption voltage might have to be held for 10 hours or more before amps taper to less than 0.5% of the 20 hr capacity. The battery might still be a little 'smaller' than it should/perhaps Could be, but discharging to 50% and meeting that high amp ~30% charge rate until absorption voltage is reached, and if the proper absorption voltage is then held for as long as it then takes to the point amps taper to 0.5 per 100AH capacity, it stands a much better chance of becoming that bigger battery again, and will be easier to fully recharge the next time.
The trick to maximizing any lead acid battery longevity is getting it 100% recharged As soon as possible after any level of discharge.
When AGM batteries are not returned to 100% regularly, they will get more petulant than the flooded battery in the same usage. This SuperDuper high$$ AGM battery is a princess, and will not tolerate being recharged to only 85% or living in the 75 to 90% range very well. It will likely last no longer than a wet/flooded starting battery, but for 3x the price.
But if you can give that AGM princess everything she wants, that Mute AGM princess battery will become the hard working thick ankled farm girl kicking your engine to life, quickly, while giving you a deep tissue massage with a happy ending finish, for many happy years.
Don't give it what it wants and it becomes a complaining feminist with a shrill voice and a litany belittlements to foist upon you when you are most vulnerable.
The mentally healthy AGM battery also can have much much less self discharge. 1% to 4% per month at 80f while a flooded battery can lose 15% a month. The princess can fast.
Once below 80% charged that sulfation that forms gets harder and harder and becomes more reluctant to redissolve back into the electrolyte.
Self discharge accelerates as battery capacity declines and it can be a quick downward spiral.
I am very glad I do not have to warranty batteries. If they are treated well they will greatly exceed their warranty period. Abused, and they can be killed in a month.
If these charging parameters are exceeded on Gelled electrolyte batteries then voids can form in the gelled electrolyte, and where voids formed, they remain and that portion of the plates becomes forever useless.
The gel batteries main benefit is it can handle the super deep discharges and retain more of their capacity in deep cycle usage. They are also more resistant to Partial state of charge cycling compared to AGM or flooded/wet batteries
AGM batteries absorption voltages range from 14.2v to 14.9v among different manufacturers, and this is for a 77 or 80F battery.
SOME agms are limited to no more than 30% of their capacity, 30 amps for a 100AH battery.
Some other AGMS say no less than X amount when deeply cycled. Odyssey says that when their group31 100AH battery is discharged to 50%, which is around 12.2 rested volts, it Must then receive a 40 amp charge rate until battery terminal voltage achieves 14.7v At 77F, And then 14.7v is to be held for 4 hours, or until amperage tapers to under a certain level, likely 0.5 amps.
That is the Ideal charge algorithm for the Odyssey AGM when deeply cycled. Anything less is simply less than ideal. How unideal it is, is hard to say.
In general the lower state of charge the battery achieves on recharge, and the longer it remains less than 100%, capacity is being compromised.
Can it be restored? Maybe. AGM batteries do not like to be tickled to death when deeply discharged, with low currents. Even the lower $$ AGM batteries that say no more than a 30% rate, will appreciate amperages that approach this rate. Higher $$ AGMs like Concorde's Lifeline, Enersys' Odyssey and Northstar AGM say the maximum charge current is several times the battery capacity, as long as 14.7v is not exceeded, you can initially feed an Odyssey group31 100AH AGM 500 amps. Sure 14.7v will be reached practically instantly at the battery terminals but if the voltage is held at 14.7v, and perhaps lowered as the battery warms up, then the More amps the better!
So please disregard the 'trickle' charge mentality when recharging well depleted AGMS. Aim for 30% of their capacity, and if An Odyssey or Northstar or Lifeline, aim for 40% or even more, and aim to hold 14.2 to 14.4v for Lifeline, and 14.46v for Northstar, and 14.7v for Odyssey , all at 77 to 80F temperature for as long as it takes for amperage to taper to 0.5 amps per 100AH of capacity at the standard 20 hour rate.
if battery temperature is hotter than 77F, lower those maximum allowed voltages. If battery is colder than 77f, then exceed those maximums.
But if that Odyssey battery was put in the vehicle fully charged, and the vehicle daily driven, and never discharged with the engine off, then that ideal recharge algorithm above is not required. Actually starting a modern vehicle consumes Soooo very little of the battery capacity it can be kept 99.95% charged as long as the alternator can keep it over 13.6v with all the loads running.
Less than Ideal absorption voltages on a nearly fully charged AGM battery that is rarely cycles below 95% don't really matter. Less than Ideal recharges on a deeply cycled AGM will compromise capacity on the first cycle and really become noticeable on the 4 deep cycle as the battery will behave like a much much smaller battery
But if the vehicle's Voltage regulator decides that 15.0 volts is to be held on a 110F battery, well the AGM battery will vent, and can dry out. Cumulative damage one might be completely unaware of.
If the AGM is accidently or Intentionally deeply cycled, then the charging currents are much more critical, and achieving a true 100% charge ASAP, ASOftenAP, is the key to excellent battery longevity.
IF a new, healthy AGM is accidentally discharged and the alternator is to be the only charging source, Not only is the alternator going to be worked very hard for at least an hour, but at least 4 more hours of driving would be required before the battery could possibly be anywhere near the ideal 100% charged range.
If the AGM is aged mostly lived its life in the 85 to 90% charged range, then Absorption voltage might have to be held for 10 hours or more before amps taper to less than 0.5% of the 20 hr capacity. The battery might still be a little 'smaller' than it should/perhaps Could be, but discharging to 50% and meeting that high amp ~30% charge rate until absorption voltage is reached, and if the proper absorption voltage is then held for as long as it then takes to the point amps taper to 0.5 per 100AH capacity, it stands a much better chance of becoming that bigger battery again, and will be easier to fully recharge the next time.
The trick to maximizing any lead acid battery longevity is getting it 100% recharged As soon as possible after any level of discharge.
When AGM batteries are not returned to 100% regularly, they will get more petulant than the flooded battery in the same usage. This SuperDuper high$$ AGM battery is a princess, and will not tolerate being recharged to only 85% or living in the 75 to 90% range very well. It will likely last no longer than a wet/flooded starting battery, but for 3x the price.
But if you can give that AGM princess everything she wants, that Mute AGM princess battery will become the hard working thick ankled farm girl kicking your engine to life, quickly, while giving you a deep tissue massage with a happy ending finish, for many happy years.
Don't give it what it wants and it becomes a complaining feminist with a shrill voice and a litany belittlements to foist upon you when you are most vulnerable.
The mentally healthy AGM battery also can have much much less self discharge. 1% to 4% per month at 80f while a flooded battery can lose 15% a month. The princess can fast.
Once below 80% charged that sulfation that forms gets harder and harder and becomes more reluctant to redissolve back into the electrolyte.
Self discharge accelerates as battery capacity declines and it can be a quick downward spiral.
I am very glad I do not have to warranty batteries. If they are treated well they will greatly exceed their warranty period. Abused, and they can be killed in a month.
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
The Gel batteries were/are limited in both maximum charge voltage and maximum charge amperage. Amperage is not to exceed a certain percentage of its capacity. I think this was about 20 amps maximum for a 100AH battery( 20 hr rate) and 14.2v was the maximum voltage.
If these charging parameters are exceeded on Gelled electrolyte batteries then voids can form in the gelled electrolyte, and where voids formed, they remain and that portion of the plates becomes forever useless.
The gel batteries main benefit is it can handle the super deep discharges and retain more of their capacity in deep cycle usage. They are also more resistant to Partial state of charge cycling compared to AGM or flooded/wet batteries
AGM batteries absorption voltages range from 14.2v to 14.9v among different manufacturers, and this is for a 77 or 80F battery.
SOME agms are limited to no more than 30% of their capacity, 30 amps for a 100AH battery.
Some other AGMS say no less than X amount when deeply cycled. Odyssey says that when their group31 100AH battery is discharged to 50%, which is around 12.2 rested volts, it Must then receive a 40 amp charge rate until battery terminal voltage achieves 14.7v At 77F, And then 14.7v is to be held for 4 hours, or until amperage tapers to under a certain level, likely 0.5 amps.
That is the Ideal charge algorithm for the Odyssey AGM when deeply cycled. Anything less is simply less than ideal. How unideal it is, is hard to say.
In general the lower state of charge the battery achieves on recharge, and the longer it remains less than 100%, capacity is being compromised.
Can it be restored? Maybe. AGM batteries do not like to be tickled to death when deeply discharged, with low currents. Even the lower $$ AGM batteries that say no more than a 30% rate, will appreciate amperages that approach this rate. Higher $$ AGMs like Concorde's Lifeline, Enersys' Odyssey and Northstar AGM say the maximum charge current is several times the battery capacity, as long as 14.7v is not exceeded, you can initially feed an Odyssey group31 100AH AGM 500 amps. Sure 14.7v will be reached practically instantly at the battery terminals but if the voltage is held at 14.7v, and perhaps lowered as the battery warms up, then the More amps the better!
So please disregard the 'trickle' charge mentality when recharging well depleted AGMS. Aim for 30% of their capacity, and if An Odyssey or Northstar or Lifeline, aim for 40% or even more, and aim to hold 14.2 to 14.4v for Lifeline, and 14.46v for Northstar, and 14.7v for Odyssey , all at 77 to 80F temperature for as long as it takes for amperage to taper to 0.5 amps per 100AH of capacity at the standard 20 hour rate.
if battery temperature is hotter than 77F, lower those maximum allowed voltages. If battery is colder than 77f, then exceed those maximums.
But if that Odyssey battery was put in the vehicle fully charged, and the vehicle daily driven, and never discharged with the engine off, then that ideal recharge algorithm above is not required. Actually starting a modern vehicle consumes Soooo very little of the battery capacity it can be kept 99.95% charged as long as the alternator can keep it over 13.6v with all the loads running.
Less than Ideal absorption voltages on a nearly fully charged AGM battery that is rarely cycles below 95% don't really matter. Less than Ideal recharges on a deeply cycled AGM will compromise capacity on the first cycle and really become noticeable on the 4 deep cycle as the battery will behave like a much much smaller battery
But if the vehicle's Voltage regulator decides that 15.0 volts is to be held on a 110F battery, well the AGM battery will vent, and can dry out. Cumulative damage one might be completely unaware of.
If the AGM is accidently or Intentionally deeply cycled, then the charging currents are much more critical, and achieving a true 100% charge ASAP, ASOftenAP, is the key to excellent battery longevity.
IF a new, healthy AGM is accidentally discharged and the alternator is to be the only charging source, Not only is the alternator going to be worked very hard for at least an hour, but at least 4 more hours of driving would be required before the battery could possibly be anywhere near the ideal 100% charged range.
If the AGM is aged mostly lived its life in the 85 to 90% charged range, then Absorption voltage might have to be held for 10 hours or more before amps taper to less than 0.5% of the 20 hr capacity. The battery might still be a little 'smaller' than it should/perhaps Could be, but discharging to 50% and meeting that high amp ~30% charge rate until absorption voltage is reached, and if the proper absorption voltage is then held for as long as it then takes to the point amps taper to 0.5 per 100AH capacity, it stands a much better chance of becoming that bigger battery again, and will be easier to fully recharge the next time.
The trick to maximizing any lead acid battery longevity is getting it 100% recharged As soon as possible after any level of discharge.
When AGM batteries are not returned to 100% regularly, they will get more petulant than the flooded battery in the same usage. This SuperDuper high$$ AGM battery is a princess, and will not tolerate being recharged to only 85% or living in the 75 to 90% range very well. It will likely last no longer than a wet/flooded starting battery, but for 3x the price.
But if you can give that AGM princess everything she wants, that Mute AGM princess battery will become the hard working thick ankled farm girl kicking your engine to life, quickly, while giving you a deep tissue massage with a happy ending finish, for many happy years.
Don't give it what it wants and it becomes a complaining feminist with a shrill voice and a litany belittlements to foist upon you when you are most vulnerable.
The mentally healthy AGM battery also can have much much less self discharge. 1% to 4% per month at 80f while a flooded battery can lose 15% a month. The princess can fast.
Once below 80% charged that sulfation that forms gets harder and harder and becomes more reluctant to redissolve back into the electrolyte.
Self discharge accelerates as battery capacity declines and it can be a quick downward spiral.
I am very glad I do not have to warranty batteries. If they are treated well they will greatly exceed their warranty period. Abused, and they can be killed in a month.
It does not sound like you can ever replace a flooded battery with an AGM as the voltage regulator will not charge it properly. Only if the vehicle came from the factory with an AGM.
The Gel batteries were/are limited in both maximum charge voltage and maximum charge amperage. Amperage is not to exceed a certain percentage of its capacity. I think this was about 20 amps maximum for a 100AH battery( 20 hr rate) and 14.2v was the maximum voltage.
If these charging parameters are exceeded on Gelled electrolyte batteries then voids can form in the gelled electrolyte, and where voids formed, they remain and that portion of the plates becomes forever useless.
The gel batteries main benefit is it can handle the super deep discharges and retain more of their capacity in deep cycle usage. They are also more resistant to Partial state of charge cycling compared to AGM or flooded/wet batteries
AGM batteries absorption voltages range from 14.2v to 14.9v among different manufacturers, and this is for a 77 or 80F battery.
SOME agms are limited to no more than 30% of their capacity, 30 amps for a 100AH battery.
Some other AGMS say no less than X amount when deeply cycled. Odyssey says that when their group31 100AH battery is discharged to 50%, which is around 12.2 rested volts, it Must then receive a 40 amp charge rate until battery terminal voltage achieves 14.7v At 77F, And then 14.7v is to be held for 4 hours, or until amperage tapers to under a certain level, likely 0.5 amps.
That is the Ideal charge algorithm for the Odyssey AGM when deeply cycled. Anything less is simply less than ideal. How unideal it is, is hard to say.
In general the lower state of charge the battery achieves on recharge, and the longer it remains less than 100%, capacity is being compromised.
Can it be restored? Maybe. AGM batteries do not like to be tickled to death when deeply discharged, with low currents. Even the lower $$ AGM batteries that say no more than a 30% rate, will appreciate amperages that approach this rate. Higher $$ AGMs like Concorde's Lifeline, Enersys' Odyssey and Northstar AGM say the maximum charge current is several times the battery capacity, as long as 14.7v is not exceeded, you can initially feed an Odyssey group31 100AH AGM 500 amps. Sure 14.7v will be reached practically instantly at the battery terminals but if the voltage is held at 14.7v, and perhaps lowered as the battery warms up, then the More amps the better!
So please disregard the 'trickle' charge mentality when recharging well depleted AGMS. Aim for 30% of their capacity, and if An Odyssey or Northstar or Lifeline, aim for 40% or even more, and aim to hold 14.2 to 14.4v for Lifeline, and 14.46v for Northstar, and 14.7v for Odyssey , all at 77 to 80F temperature for as long as it takes for amperage to taper to 0.5 amps per 100AH of capacity at the standard 20 hour rate.
if battery temperature is hotter than 77F, lower those maximum allowed voltages. If battery is colder than 77f, then exceed those maximums.
But if that Odyssey battery was put in the vehicle fully charged, and the vehicle daily driven, and never discharged with the engine off, then that ideal recharge algorithm above is not required. Actually starting a modern vehicle consumes Soooo very little of the battery capacity it can be kept 99.95% charged as long as the alternator can keep it over 13.6v with all the loads running.
Less than Ideal absorption voltages on a nearly fully charged AGM battery that is rarely cycles below 95% don't really matter. Less than Ideal recharges on a deeply cycled AGM will compromise capacity on the first cycle and really become noticeable on the 4 deep cycle as the battery will behave like a much much smaller battery
But if the vehicle's Voltage regulator decides that 15.0 volts is to be held on a 110F battery, well the AGM battery will vent, and can dry out. Cumulative damage one might be completely unaware of.
If the AGM is accidently or Intentionally deeply cycled, then the charging currents are much more critical, and achieving a true 100% charge ASAP, ASOftenAP, is the key to excellent battery longevity.
IF a new, healthy AGM is accidentally discharged and the alternator is to be the only charging source, Not only is the alternator going to be worked very hard for at least an hour, but at least 4 more hours of driving would be required before the battery could possibly be anywhere near the ideal 100% charged range.
If the AGM is aged mostly lived its life in the 85 to 90% charged range, then Absorption voltage might have to be held for 10 hours or more before amps taper to less than 0.5% of the 20 hr capacity. The battery might still be a little 'smaller' than it should/perhaps Could be, but discharging to 50% and meeting that high amp ~30% charge rate until absorption voltage is reached, and if the proper absorption voltage is then held for as long as it then takes to the point amps taper to 0.5 per 100AH capacity, it stands a much better chance of becoming that bigger battery again, and will be easier to fully recharge the next time.
The trick to maximizing any lead acid battery longevity is getting it 100% recharged As soon as possible after any level of discharge.
When AGM batteries are not returned to 100% regularly, they will get more petulant than the flooded battery in the same usage. This SuperDuper high$$ AGM battery is a princess, and will not tolerate being recharged to only 85% or living in the 75 to 90% range very well. It will likely last no longer than a wet/flooded starting battery, but for 3x the price.
But if you can give that AGM princess everything she wants, that Mute AGM princess battery will become the hard working thick ankled farm girl kicking your engine to life, quickly, while giving you a deep tissue massage with a happy ending finish, for many happy years.
Don't give it what it wants and it becomes a complaining feminist with a shrill voice and a litany belittlements to foist upon you when you are most vulnerable.
The mentally healthy AGM battery also can have much much less self discharge. 1% to 4% per month at 80f while a flooded battery can lose 15% a month. The princess can fast.
Once below 80% charged that sulfation that forms gets harder and harder and becomes more reluctant to redissolve back into the electrolyte.
Self discharge accelerates as battery capacity declines and it can be a quick downward spiral.
I am very glad I do not have to warranty batteries. If they are treated well they will greatly exceed their warranty period. Abused, and they can be killed in a month.
It does not sound like you can ever replace a flooded battery with an AGM as the voltage regulator will not charge it properly. Only if the vehicle came from the factory with an AGM.
Costco. Why? Excellent warranty and a much more powerful Interstate battery. $82 as opposed to $49 for Walmart cheapo. Worth the extra in my opinion.
Originally Posted By: Donald
It does not sound like you can ever replace a flooded battery with an AGM as the voltage regulator will not charge it properly. Only if the vehicle came from the factory with an AGM.
I did not mean to imply that. My voltage regulator allowed nearly 0.5 volts higher than my Northstar battery's prescribed 14.46@77f and the battery is performing well, very well. I've no idea it the extra voltage caused some water loss.
If one is not deep cycling the battery, then the recharge parameters are much less important. Keeping a battery full is not hard, but getting a depleted battery back to full takes some doing, and the variances in absorption voltage and initial currents applied in the quest to attain absorption voltages can and do play huge part in how well any battery can be recharged fully.
Used as a Starting battery, an AGM can do quite well in most any voltage regulation situation, but when the battery is cycled deep, the vehicles regulator will likely not approach 'ideal', and the vehicle will not be driven for long enough to actually fully charge the battery, and AGMS really do not like to be deeply cycled and slow charged to 90% and never get any higher.
Wet batteries don't like this either, but they are not as fickle as an AGM battery in this regard.
There is no real reason to go AGM for a starting battery in most scenarios. It is kind of a bragging rights battery.
I got one as I wanted to see how differently it behaved than the wet batteries I cycled hard and heavy.
The wet batteries would definitely yield a better cycle per dollar ratio all factors being equal at less than ideal.
It does not sound like you can ever replace a flooded battery with an AGM as the voltage regulator will not charge it properly. Only if the vehicle came from the factory with an AGM.
I did not mean to imply that. My voltage regulator allowed nearly 0.5 volts higher than my Northstar battery's prescribed 14.46@77f and the battery is performing well, very well. I've no idea it the extra voltage caused some water loss.
If one is not deep cycling the battery, then the recharge parameters are much less important. Keeping a battery full is not hard, but getting a depleted battery back to full takes some doing, and the variances in absorption voltage and initial currents applied in the quest to attain absorption voltages can and do play huge part in how well any battery can be recharged fully.
Used as a Starting battery, an AGM can do quite well in most any voltage regulation situation, but when the battery is cycled deep, the vehicles regulator will likely not approach 'ideal', and the vehicle will not be driven for long enough to actually fully charge the battery, and AGMS really do not like to be deeply cycled and slow charged to 90% and never get any higher.
Wet batteries don't like this either, but they are not as fickle as an AGM battery in this regard.
There is no real reason to go AGM for a starting battery in most scenarios. It is kind of a bragging rights battery.
I got one as I wanted to see how differently it behaved than the wet batteries I cycled hard and heavy.
The wet batteries would definitely yield a better cycle per dollar ratio all factors being equal at less than ideal.
I'm running an AGM in my bike. Its a 1980 so I doubt it came with one... actually I know it didn't. Replaced spring of 2012, rarely driven, still healthy and actually holds a charge very well.
Originally Posted By: wrcsixeight
There is no real reason to go AGM for a starting battery in most scenarios. It is kind of a bragging rights battery.
That's what I suspected.
For me, it's not only the incremental cost of the AGM version (+$35), but maybe also a new charger to replace the "dumb" charger I've had for umpteenth years.
The lower self-discharge rate might be an occasional benefit, but the car doesn't otherwise have loads of electronics, stop/start, or anything else that might cause deeper cycles.
It would mostly be a "neat" or "cool" kinda thing.
The climate here is mild, and I've had no issues with the JCI batteries I've had. In fact, the one in question survived a prolonged ~3 month deep discharge when I left town and left it connected. The voltage was low enough to seriously dim the lights and trip an SRS fault.
I thought it might live a short life because of that, but it has gone 8 years+.
Thanks for the thorough explanation.
There is no real reason to go AGM for a starting battery in most scenarios. It is kind of a bragging rights battery.
That's what I suspected.
For me, it's not only the incremental cost of the AGM version (+$35), but maybe also a new charger to replace the "dumb" charger I've had for umpteenth years.
The lower self-discharge rate might be an occasional benefit, but the car doesn't otherwise have loads of electronics, stop/start, or anything else that might cause deeper cycles.
It would mostly be a "neat" or "cool" kinda thing.
The climate here is mild, and I've had no issues with the JCI batteries I've had. In fact, the one in question survived a prolonged ~3 month deep discharge when I left town and left it connected. The voltage was low enough to seriously dim the lights and trip an SRS fault.
I thought it might live a short life because of that, but it has gone 8 years+.
Thanks for the thorough explanation.
There are some benefits to AGM, but for most these will never be realized.
There is also what I like to differentiate as the high$$ agm and the low$$ AGMs, with the 30% charge rate being the dividing line.
The HIgh$$ have no real achievable limits on initial charging amps when deeply cycled, but they must also be recharged above a minimum initial rate for maximum capacity retention. Both types however need to be returned to 100% ASAP as often as possible for maximum capacity retention, and in this regard they are more fickle than their cheaper flooded counterparts.
The low$$ AGMS 'might' be more tolerant of lesser initial charge currents when deeply cycled, but I am not sure as I have no long term data on them in deep cycle usage.
But if the AGM battery is only used as a starting battery and never discharged, it will only near 30% rate for a few seconds after the engine catches anyway.
Really the AGM is a better marine battery, meaning it is a good dual purpose crossover battery, with both high CCA rating and ability to be more deeply cycled without damage, if promptly recharged according to its specific needs.
If we have two batteries, one flooded, one AGM of the same group size, if both were healthy and drawn down to 30% charged, the flooded battery might not be able to start the vehicle, the AGM most likely easily could.
I've been extremely surprised when starting my engine with a 74 lb 90 AH 930 CCA Northstar group 27 AGM with 64 AH depleted from it. I had my Stereo on at the time, and it did not even shut off as it would when trying to start the engine with my previous group 31 130 AH 620CCA 67 LB flooded marine battery when it was 50% charged.
I am not sure the lower$$ AGMs will have this same ability of engine cranking when very depleted. My Northstar group 27 was 325$ One can get a Deka intimidator relabelled for little more than half of that. Good battery for sure, but not the same league as Northstar Odyssey or Concorde/ Lifeline.
As far as six pack/ Spiral cell AGm batteries go, They have 25 to 33% less capacity in the same group size format, eliminating them from consideration in my intended usages. I have no need of their extra vibration resistance or the extra physical strength of their casing, or their insulting marketing.
There is also what I like to differentiate as the high$$ agm and the low$$ AGMs, with the 30% charge rate being the dividing line.
The HIgh$$ have no real achievable limits on initial charging amps when deeply cycled, but they must also be recharged above a minimum initial rate for maximum capacity retention. Both types however need to be returned to 100% ASAP as often as possible for maximum capacity retention, and in this regard they are more fickle than their cheaper flooded counterparts.
The low$$ AGMS 'might' be more tolerant of lesser initial charge currents when deeply cycled, but I am not sure as I have no long term data on them in deep cycle usage.
But if the AGM battery is only used as a starting battery and never discharged, it will only near 30% rate for a few seconds after the engine catches anyway.
Really the AGM is a better marine battery, meaning it is a good dual purpose crossover battery, with both high CCA rating and ability to be more deeply cycled without damage, if promptly recharged according to its specific needs.
If we have two batteries, one flooded, one AGM of the same group size, if both were healthy and drawn down to 30% charged, the flooded battery might not be able to start the vehicle, the AGM most likely easily could.
I've been extremely surprised when starting my engine with a 74 lb 90 AH 930 CCA Northstar group 27 AGM with 64 AH depleted from it. I had my Stereo on at the time, and it did not even shut off as it would when trying to start the engine with my previous group 31 130 AH 620CCA 67 LB flooded marine battery when it was 50% charged.
I am not sure the lower$$ AGMs will have this same ability of engine cranking when very depleted. My Northstar group 27 was 325$ One can get a Deka intimidator relabelled for little more than half of that. Good battery for sure, but not the same league as Northstar Odyssey or Concorde/ Lifeline.
As far as six pack/ Spiral cell AGm batteries go, They have 25 to 33% less capacity in the same group size format, eliminating them from consideration in my intended usages. I have no need of their extra vibration resistance or the extra physical strength of their casing, or their insulting marketing.
Originally Posted By: buck91
I'm running an AGM in my bike. Its a 1980 so I doubt it came with one... actually I know it didn't. Replaced spring of 2012, rarely driven, still healthy and actually holds a charge very well.
We picked up one for one atv and like it. I plan to go with http://www.carid.com/1995-chevy-caprice-...l_4UaAiOw8P8HAQ for the wife's 2003 truck.
In fact at these prices I plan to get AMG for all auto replacement batteries until my experience is more negative than with flooded lead acid auto batteries. I like the fact they do not sulfate up like regular lead acid battery and the posts stay clean.
I'm running an AGM in my bike. Its a 1980 so I doubt it came with one... actually I know it didn't. Replaced spring of 2012, rarely driven, still healthy and actually holds a charge very well.
We picked up one for one atv and like it. I plan to go with http://www.carid.com/1995-chevy-caprice-...l_4UaAiOw8P8HAQ for the wife's 2003 truck.
In fact at these prices I plan to get AMG for all auto replacement batteries until my experience is more negative than with flooded lead acid auto batteries. I like the fact they do not sulfate up like regular lead acid battery and the posts stay clean.
AGM batteries still sulfate, it is usually how they are murdered.
Exide gets no love on this forum. I've only knowingly had one of them, and Exide Nautilus flooded marine battery, and the thing loved to spew acid out the caps, but it otherwise took some pretty serious abuse OK.
The following link lists some charging parameters. it says on their flat plate AGM 14.1 to 14.4v is the maximum allowed and amperage limited to half the battery capacity, ie no more than 50 amps for a 100AH battery and no higher than 14.4v, at 77F.
Which is very similar to flooded batteries except floodeds are generally 25 amps per 100Ah of capacity, but they can certainly ask for more when depleted and more is available.
http://www.exide.com/Media/files/Downloa...20%205_9_13.pdf
I'd say with AGM's the vehicles used as a starting battery only,(minimal deeper cycles) max voltage is likely the most important figure to stay under. the 50 amps, well certainly alternators are powerful enough today to exceed 50amps per 100AH, but will they over the cabling they installed to their price point?
Does the vehicle have a battery temperature sensor and adjust voltage downward as the battery rises to underhood temperatures?
Maximum AGM life underhood has to be greatly affected by the heat it attains, and the voltage the vehicle allows when the bvattery is as hot as it gets
. When not deeply cycled then lesser voltages just add time to the recharge and are much easier on the battery but if deeply discharged these lower voltages might not meet the minimum charging amps that force the electrolyte migration through the glass matting.
Either way, they are batteries, and just rented. The length of the rental contract is the variable, and the proper recharging parameters are the key to maximizing hat contract length
Exide gets no love on this forum. I've only knowingly had one of them, and Exide Nautilus flooded marine battery, and the thing loved to spew acid out the caps, but it otherwise took some pretty serious abuse OK.
The following link lists some charging parameters. it says on their flat plate AGM 14.1 to 14.4v is the maximum allowed and amperage limited to half the battery capacity, ie no more than 50 amps for a 100AH battery and no higher than 14.4v, at 77F.
Which is very similar to flooded batteries except floodeds are generally 25 amps per 100Ah of capacity, but they can certainly ask for more when depleted and more is available.
http://www.exide.com/Media/files/Downloa...20%205_9_13.pdf
I'd say with AGM's the vehicles used as a starting battery only,(minimal deeper cycles) max voltage is likely the most important figure to stay under. the 50 amps, well certainly alternators are powerful enough today to exceed 50amps per 100AH, but will they over the cabling they installed to their price point?
Does the vehicle have a battery temperature sensor and adjust voltage downward as the battery rises to underhood temperatures?
Maximum AGM life underhood has to be greatly affected by the heat it attains, and the voltage the vehicle allows when the bvattery is as hot as it gets
. When not deeply cycled then lesser voltages just add time to the recharge and are much easier on the battery but if deeply discharged these lower voltages might not meet the minimum charging amps that force the electrolyte migration through the glass matting.
Either way, they are batteries, and just rented. The length of the rental contract is the variable, and the proper recharging parameters are the key to maximizing hat contract length
I have a Cessna 150. Airplanes vibrate lots. Batteries hate vibrations. Usually 2-3 years and the battery is shot. They don't have much CCA so you will see how weak your battery has got. I bought a AGM battery for it. I'm going on year five. Cracks like crazy still. I'm sold on AGM.
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