Battery/Alternator tests

[ShortBuSX]

Saturday night it was humid and rainy...stop at the store and leave the lights, AC, wipers, stereo(down low) and engine running with my girl still in the car...get a pack of smokes and get back on the road. The windshield was a little fogged from the ACs coldness so I hit the washers...my washer kinda fizzled and barely streamed...and I was like "***?" So I hit it again thinkin I might have bumped one of the nozzles while cleaning...and then the stereo/clock temp faded out/off and the lights all dimmed. I immediately turned every accesory off including the fog lights and limped back home (a block away). Later I leave and go to my girls house, the car(2003 Suzuki Aerio SX) started fine on the way there and back home the next morning...but still didnt trust it.

I took it to Discount autoparts Sunday and have it checked...and yep, its the alternator. Ive got 1500 miles left of my 36k warranty and make an appointment ASAP at my dealer...I know there is a TSB, and ironiclly asked about it just last visit. After making my appointment I got a little concerned/worried(I tend to worry often.)So I decide to get another opinion

So I had it tested Sunday afternnon(test 1) at Discount Auto, the guy says the alternator is bad...I say "great" WARRANTY! I start to kinda worry, so I wanna make sure its the alternator and goto another Disc Auto on Monday while doing errands(mind you Ive turned all acs off and its started everytime, and was on a charger overnight set to "recondition") and this rather rotund lethargic gentleman tests it(test 2) and tells me my battery is bad...Im like "***?" walk away but dont bother to tell him what the other guy at the other local said...and figure I'll hit AutoZone on the way to work, this guy(MNGR at AutoZone(test 3) tells me my alt is puttin out 0.8? so the alt is bad as well as the battery...which started 3 times in his lot. I get to work and set the battery on "recondition" again....and according to this charger should be done for 24-48 hours, but I am only able to do this for 8-12 hours at a time.

BTW I called the dealer Monday(before the 2 other tests), told him what the car did saturday night and that its the alt. and then asked what it would take to get them to warranty it out..."I mean do I gotta drive it till it damages the battery and then have roadside haul me to your shop...or what?" He immediately says "the battery is not covered by warranty, lets set up an appointment"...I say first thing today(Tues)

Okay, just back from the dealer

The service writting chic started off all pissy and gave me additude upon additude from jump street

I told her I had it tested and it came up as an alternator problem, that "I might have a bad battery but Im not replacing it today"(BTW 79+35! for the labor if they did it, which she obviously wanted to)...so she starts in that shes "never seen an alternator go bad"(I dont know if she was refering to Aerio alts or in general. either way

)...so I told her "Ive never had a battery go bad!" She wrote it up with much additude, and then I piled on the repeat complaints, most of them since time of purchase, some have been in for 4 and 5 times per complaint, and I emphasized that this time.

Anyway I didnt get a warm fuzzy feelin off of her, so I stuck around for the festivities of the day. My mechanic greets me by name, sounds bummed like he just got a ration of S' from her, and then commences to lift the car. Asks me if Ive had to excessively jump the car...I respond "never!" Puts the car on some machine(Micro 420 V2.0)(test 4) and then tells me my battery is bad and then shows me a print out(which I have here in front of me) and it reads:

Battery test
Rating: 700 CCA
12.63V 605 CCA
Good --- Recharge

Service Code
07k8C-QA6EV

Charge Test
Charging: 14.07V
Voltage: Normal

I dont know what this means but he continues to tell me my battery is bad and its not the alternator. I still continue to stand there waiting and watching and he asks me what shes done...told him almost verbatum the first paragraph...he says did the car shut down or die, I said no, "I shut it all down(the acessories) before it did, cause Im no ignorant donkey I aint tryin to walk home!" But I also told him "if need be I can drive it till it does and have roadside assitance tow me back, if thats the case."...he says OK and walks away, I guess he reread the TSB, comes back and tells me hes ordering me a new alternator based on what Ive told him and against what hes seen/observed...because my description was spot on to the TSB's.

My new alternator shall be installed on Thursday...and let me tell you, that service lady was all nice and freindly after her serving of crow! And even scheduled an appointment with the rep for me...and then also told me not to worry about my mileage/warranty running out before he got there to go for a ride with me that is all been documented(the other repeat complaints).

So my question is this: Why are all the readings different? Why does every guy say something different than the last?Shouldnt this be cut and dry? Why so vague? Why isnt the problem more obvious? I know very little about electricity, so bare with my ignorance.

And:Am I damaging my battery by driving this until I replace the alternator? Or is putting it on a charger sufficient?(if not already damaged)

 

[jorton]

What about your squirters? Check the rubber hose that goes fron the water tank to the nozzles to see if it's plugged up. When mine get plugged up I disconnect the rubber hose and blow the blockage out. If that hose is plugged the electric squirter pump draws more current than it should.

If you can drive at night with the headlights on for 1 hour without killing the battery then the alternator is probably ok.

If the battery dies in the daytime then either the battery is bad or the posts and inside the clamps are corroded and you need to clean them with a battery brush.

Don't worry. Joe

 

[ShortBuSX]

I use silicone dielectric compound on most of my electrical connections, so corrosion is never an issue.

Im currently driving to and from work 1/2 hour each way, with only what is necissarry...no music, no A/C, no fog lights. Im not testing the waters to find out.

I just wanna know why all the different readings?(sorry I dont have the 3 previous readings as I got no print out from them)

 

[brianl703]

Were I you, I'd get a multimeter and a cigarette lighter cord and measure the system voltage while driving.

Anything above about 13V at idle is ok, above idle it should be above about 13.2 with lower voltages in hotter weather.

 

[unDummy]

Parts store clerks are just that.

If you want something tested, either pay a pro or do it yourself.

An easy wasy to test the alternator is to load it up(high beams/defroster/AC/stereo/brakes....) and measure the voltage with a voltmeter from radioshack or harborfreight, starting at $10.

Don't forget to replace the alternator belt. A quietly slipping belt, on a rainy day, will cause problems.

 

[Shaman]

WHile you are at it, make sure the grounds are cleaned up. My grand prix has the main ground attached to a painted surface.

 

[White 03]

Another thing to check is what the warrantee covers and for how long. Ford covers orginal battery for 3 years or 36,000 miles. My Honda warrantee is a little less clear but seems to cover the orginal battery for 3 years or 36,000 but only for 50 percent for the last year.

My Ford battery died at 3 years and a week or something like that; I don't know how they can figure it so close sometimes.

I would double check the warrantee book and make sure they are telling you correct information.

 

[9c1]

There are machines -- SUN VAT [Volt Amp Tester] 40 (there are a series of these machines – lower number is older) comes to mind -- which will test the output of the alternator as well as the battery and starter. Most, if not all, alternators are marked with the rated output. The VAT will load the battery and make the alternator put out maximum charge with the engine running at 2000 rpm. It too will print out the results for the alternator, just like you got for the battery.
There are other machines which will perform the same kinds of tests. It does require two things – having that machine, and the skill to use it. With one of these testers, in the proper hands, there will be no doubt about the battery or alternator. Anything else is changing parts and praying that one of them fixes the problem.
Notice on the paper he gave you it says "Battery ....good" While I am not familiar with the equipment he used, that might be a clue.
The automotive mass merchandisers usually do not have the kind of equipment it takes to properly test the automotive electrical system. It sounds like the dealership you went to doesn't either, or their staff doesn’t know how to use what they have. The saving grace of the dealer is that, other than the aggravation, it didn't cost you anything. Consider that sometimes you get what you pay for.
Terry

 

[mechtech]

If your alternator is bad, of course the battery will read low, and be pronounced bad.
The b_tch at the counter was probably a relative of the owner - job security.

 

[chas3]

generally speaking if your car is running fine and you only fail to restart, the battery is bad. otherwise its the alternator (i have had an exception--a battery with a shorted cell. it caused a huge load and my lights dimmed while the engine was running. it looked like a failed alternator, but the battery wouldnt take a charge. if there's any doubt, i would say pull the battery and try to charge it externally. that should clear up any doubts.

further, a bad alternator can destroy a battery anyway (and vice versa).

if the battery's life is more than 1/2 gone, you might as well replace the battery unless money is an issue.

 

[RJCorazza]

At 605cca tested with a conductance meter, your battery is very close to failing. I believe the Midtronics testers fail the battery at 80% capacity. A good condition, relatively new battery will test out at up to 120% capacity.

 

[mechtech]

Clean the terminals and connectors. Also, clean all your ground cables and hot wires, and where they seat.
There are grounds for the body, and engine, that are not the large batery cable.

 

[1 FMF]

http://www.uuhome.de/william.darden/carfaq4.htm

read throughout this site, will explain 1000% more info than any parts store or dealer will ever know.

these people will say "they tested it". But they have no clue what the test is and 90% of the time don't know how to perform it correctly. i've brought my boat batteries to crap zone to get load tested, before I bought my own tester for $70, and all they know is to push the "test" button. they have no clue what it means, half the time all they're doing is measuring voltage across the terminals and not doing the actual load test.

 

[Tosh]

That battery is coming up on three years, right? Have you checked the electrolyte levels? Top up with distilled water if you can open it. Batteries take a beating in hot (or cold) climates, and I wouldn't expect more than four years from it. Sounds like a bit of an evil circle you've got going on. Keep jumper wires handy, cell phone charged, and keep an eye out for a battery sale. Lucky for you that you're getting a new alternator though.

 

[Arctic388]

the auto parts place can set the machine to make the battery fail. i've seen it myself and heard the guy tell the other one to set it up so it would fail. i always test witha volt tester and if its 12.6 off then start and test it it should be above 13 or maybe 14. but if it stays 12.6 or even goes lower then the battery is bad. i have never seen a bad battery have 12.6 volts.
wouldnt want to run it to long on bad alternator.

diagnosis- bad alternator