Battery? Alternator? Something else?

[weebl]

I have a fairly new battery, replaced in January under warranty (after pulling teeth at Walmart), but it is an Everstart (JCI manufactured), and has a manufacture date of 12/12. The old JCI battery (Energizer) had heavy corrosion at the terminals, bad enough that I had to cut off the ends of the factory battery cables, and repair it as well.

The cables I fixed myself, with standard parts: screw on battery terminal clamps, short segments of 4 gauge wire, and butt connectors to join to the vehicle's battery cable. I should note that while I did a guestimate match of the cable as 4 gauge on the vehicle, it seemed more like maybe 3 gauge, though I already had everything disconnected from the jerry-rig I did to temporarily get the vehicle running until I would complete the repair. The vehicle side cables fit the butt commector, but only just, with maybe a dozen strands out of hundreds not fitting in. I did an overnight charge with my smart charger after installation, and did a couple more since: once before a road trip my wife was going to take but didn't, and then another one before a road trip last weekend. I was trying to baby this battery after the last one failed after just 3 years. I even noticed the headlights seemed brighter after battery replacement. Vehicle has been garage parked overnight, unheated, but temps about what you would expect in a refrigerator. It has also been parked other times during the day in temperatures that have been as cold as -20C / -4F.

All was going well until last night. My wife was at a friend's house from about 6pm until 11pm when she tried to leave. Temps were actually quite mild, -5C / 23F. The rest is as she described what happened:

Unlocked the vehicle with the remote, tried to start, all instruments and the interior dome lights went dead. Nothing, nada. She, her friend, and her friend's husband didn't know how to jump start, and they didn't attempt it. Friend's husband fiddled around to check fuses under the hood to see if something blew, and in doing so, he noticed the interior dome lights come back on (no fuse was blown, it could have been a coincidence when the power seemed to return that he was checking). He tried to start, and nothing, everything went dead again.

CAA was called, and when they arrived, the driver got it boosted. He tried to perform simple diagnostics, but his tester wasn't working. He noted the battery was new, so that seemed to be a low chance it was the problem. He suggested alternator could be an issue, or a parasitic load sapping everything, or maybe the lights were left on. I doubt there is a significant enough parasitic load, no accessories have been added to the vehicle in years, in fact, it decreased since the battery, as I left the brake controller for towing disconnected (will change the spade connectors that got corroded this spring before towing). Driver who boosted did say he's seen accessories that were fine for years suddenly spike in parasitic load though. Not the lights either, as my wife says she didn't turn on a map light inside before leaving the vehicle, and the headlights have auto-off in case she forgot. Door couln't have been ajar, since the vehicle beeps continuously if the door isn't fully closed if you try to lock it with the remote (the only way she ever locks it).

My conclusion seems to be that it is either the alternator, some accessory failure causing a huge parasitic load as the driver suggested (though I don't think so, as this morning, the charger was on a float charge, and if I even open the dorr while it is on a float charge, I see the charger kick in immediately to compensate. Or could it be an entirely different electrical problem?

Vehicle is a 2006 Toyota Sienna, with 160,000 km (100,000 miles) on the ticker. I don't think I've left out any details, but ask in case I have. Quite perplexed at this.

 

[AandPDan]

It sounds like a bad connection. Too bad the CAA guy couldn't do a load test on it.

Replace your "jerry-rigged" cables with a complete assembly. All of those splices, from your screw on connector to the butt splices add resistance. Ironically, heat can actually make it worse.

Then check for parasitic draw. You might have a bad diode in the alternator.

Once you get that done check the charging system out.

 

[HerrStig]

I'd solder those butt connectors. In high current applications, the lower the voltage the better the connection has to be. Otherwise, check the GROUND connections, both to the block and to the body. Back off the bolts, inspect, and clean the mating surface. I use a small butane torch & thick electronics solder to ensure a good low resistance connection. I do like the Toyota practivce of using a battery clamp which unbolts from the cable end, unless the cable to terminal joint is really bad just the clamp can be changed.

 

[trooper001]

A bad voltage regulator could cause all sorts of off-and-on again symptoms you described. Had to deal with an intermittent problem recently, were my car wouldnt have any electrical current, but then randomly would get full power again. The voltage regulator is built into modern alternators, so replace that and you should be good. And do check all your grounds. A bad ground can stress a voltage regulator, causing it to fail prematuraly.

 

[LeakySeals]

When my OE Toyota starter went it was random, mimicked a bad battery. Sometimes a slow turn, sometimes a click, sometimes nothing at all with dimming lights. I would check that out, maybe thats what the wife was describing.

 

[jegs]

If the dome lights etc are on and you try to start the engine and everything goes dark that is a bad connection. I would replace the cables with new ones. Splices on battery cables always eventually cause a problem.

 

[zzyzzx]

Originally Posted By: AandPDan
Replace your "jerry-rigged" cables with a complete assembly. All of those splices, from your screw on connector to the butt splices add resistance.


I agree with the above statement. Also, I would never cut the end of the battery cable like that, unless I really had no choice. I carefully use a Dremel to cut off the old crimped battery connector so that my battery cable doesn't get any shorter.

 

[Donald]

How did you crimp the butt connector? While the alternator could have a problem, your first problem is a bad connection. I would buy the proper cable and clean the areas around where both ends go.

 

[weebl]

I have the free testing service for CAA coming over this evening, who hopefully can pinpoint the problem.

The "jerry-rig" originally done was to get the vehicle running with the new battery, and bring it home. Within a couple of days, I redid the connection. The factory ends of the battery cables were beyond saving, completely corroded, and parts that crumbled off with little force.

As for my replacement ends, they were made with the following:

- http://www.walmart.ca/en/ip/schumacher-baf-ttc-coated-top-terminalpost-washer/10198884

- 6" for each side of bulk 4 gauge battery cable

- standard 4 gauge butt connectors for each side to join the new pigtails to the factory cable

Crimping was done with a swage tool like this one:

http://i3.quinbyhardware.com/6032619.jpg

I understand the butt connectors can add resistance to the system, but it can't be that much, can it? And would a system be designed so marginally that something small like the butt connectors would wreak havoc?

If the cables/connectors are a problem, I have a suspicion the OEM replacements cost an arm an a leg. What about the "upgraded" battery cables/connectors favoured by those who are into high end car audio? I imagine a better quality cable than OEM can be had for less in these cases.

 

[AandPDan]

The battery connector, bolt-ons, are junk.

What kind of butt connectors are you using?

Any resistance, when you're pulling a couple of hundreds amps through it, leads to significant voltage drop and starting problems.

 

[weebl]

Update on the issue: testing determined the battery terminals were the issue, and not making proper contact with the post.

After sourcing better terminals (which I found was actually hard to do around here for some reason - none aftermarket, or had to wait for OEM parts), I did find one set on a shelf that fit the bill. Curiously, the junk ones are stocked by almost every store around here, in either the painted or unpainted versions.