quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
Filter media as designed for a particular OEM application is not a matter of , well we just use the same sheet of media in every filter we build.
I doubt they design a different filter media for every car out there. They most likely have a limited selection of media to choose from. Then given some specs from the auto manufacturer and/or by reverse engineering see if a filter they already produce meets those requirements. If not, then they might tweek the media in that model with a different media to include the new requirement. If all else fails, only then would they create a totally new design.
quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
This is where consumers get their shorts in a wad when cutting open various elements and trying to analyse them as to media performance.
No one here is getting their shorts in a wad. What we do here is gather information, sometimes from the filter manufacturers themselves, and then measure and test (e.g. Grease's Study, et al)
and analyze to see if there is a better choice. If you can provide us the filter specs such as media type, characteristics of that media such as beta ratios, dirt holding capacity, media area, flow rates at a particular viscosity, etc, etc, that would help and be greatly appreciated.
quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
My question is.. take any OEM you want ( US, European, Asian). Look at the vehicles they offer to the public. Look at the OEM elements just in physical size only. There are differences, right? But do they say their recommendations for oil change are different because you bought model X instead of model Y?
The oil change interval remains constant whether you bought their smallest car to the largest vehicle they sell. Whether it has their smallest filter or their largest.
Not!! I have three different vehicles with three different filter sizes and three different OCI recommendations.
And virtually all vehicle manufacturers don't say that about oil either. I.e., I have yet to read a manual that says if you use dino the OCI is X, but if you use a full PAO syn with a robust add pack the OCI is Y. But we've seen through used oil analysis that the quality of the oil has quite a bit of an effect on how long you can go on an OCI. At best, you'll see an auto manufacturer state in a manual to use a particular oil or one that meets only certain specifications.
quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
What I am getting at is that each "quality" filter manufacturer has multiple medias that they can put into a filter can depending upon application. How else can you make a smaller filter last as long as a bigger one?
When consumers cut open a filter, looks at the paper media...it all looks like paper. What you don't know is the "blend" of the media itself. This is how filter companies solve the problem of filter life per OEM's application.
You state the obvious without providing any new or useful information.
quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
Technically, a straight synthetic media solves both problems. You can increase the media's efficiency and increase it's dirt holding capacity at the same time. Synthetic also lower initial retriction. Best of all worlds. But more expensive.
Again you state the obvious without providing any new or useful information.
quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
Personally imho, in 20 years time, all elements may be synthetic as more and more elements are produced with that media, it lowers the cost. The performance advantage is such that OEM's will be able to offer extended warranties on their engines if a consumer only uses a synthetic media element.
More drivel.
quote:
Originally posted by Filter guy:
But when you "look" at a particular paper media and want to compare it to another one....
So...when I call up the filter manufacturer and ask about two particular filters, the stock spec one and a larger size, and the tech looks up the specs and reads them off and they're identical (including the media type) except that the larger one is rated at a higher flow rate, what harm is there in using the larger size?
And finally, I don't think you understand the "Hot Rodder" mentally a lot of us have here. People modify there cars with headers, exhaust systems, chips, reprogram the CPUs, fit higher performance tires, modify suspensions, etc, all in the search for higher performance. In this little corner of the world, we apply that "Hot Rodder" mentally to lubrication.
Otherwise there's no purpose for this site other than to chant in unison to "read the manual and use the cheapest filter and API speced oil you can find that meets those requirements".
[ November 28, 2004, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: 427Z06 ]
