Baseline MPG. Charger RT.

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Mystic

exists. I don't think this website exists as a place where people can engage in personal attacks on other people.


You mean like this one:
Originally Posted By: Clevy


Pollute someone else's thread. Your opinion is worthless so don't bother wasting your time or mine.


Pray tell, what are you going to do about it.

And what are you going to do with the accusation that TrevorS is this Mori?

Originally Posted By: Trav
Come on Mori stop trolling.


I already know, but prove me wrong.

Personal attacks? I've made none. But you have a .....peculiar......definition of such.

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Mori just what does the engine cleaning thread have to do with this thread? You are just pot stirring as usual and everyone here knows it.
It doesn't work anymore so why bother?


I am not pot stirring nor am I Mori.

That's two personal attacks by you on me.

Trying to establish the standard of proof that some require is what is at issue here.

And establishing that standard wouldn't have come up if Trajan's personal testimony was attacked as worthless pollution.

It brings to mind the time that another posters personal testimony led him to being attacked as a shill.

There seems to be a pattern of personally attacking people whose personal testimony is not agreed to.

Those are the only personal attacks going on here as well as the Mori accusation and the sentences that start with "maybe you are ......".

 

[Mystic]

Trajan, I have already notified the moderators about this post. They can look this post over and make whatever decisions they are going to make.

But I will say a few things. Anybody, including the moderators, can read the above replies in this post and observe how you implied there is some sort of secret 'respected members' list and that only respected members can say certain things. I know of no such list. Do you have proof that such a list exists? Because if you do not and you are accusing this website of maintaining such a list that is an unfounded accusation unless you have proof that such a list exists.

I made no accusation of TrevorS being Mori. We do have a problem, and have had a problem here, with an individual who gets banned and keeps coming back with a new user name. I have no idea if TrevorS is that individual or not. If he is he knows it and has to live with it.

I already told you I come to this website to learn about various automotive subjects, about motor oil, etc. I don't come to this website to be personally attacked by somebody and I don't come here to fight with people. And I don't come here to have anybody try to promote some product to me. A product that is not even officially sponsoring this website in any way.

From now on I will immediately inform moderators here if somebody launches some silly personal attack against me. I am tired of the nonsense.

If you don't like what I say in my posts and replies you can put me on ignore.

I think that discussions here about any product should be about that product with both positive and negative comments about the product and NO PERSONAL ATTACKS ON ANYBODY! Now tell me exactly what is wrong with that.

 

[demarpaint]

Mystic with regard to the "Respected Members List" most long time members have their own personal list of people they believe, respect, or have learned from. The list varies, I'd be willing to bet no two members have the same list, I'd also be willing to bet that the people taking potshots at it have their own list, but they'll never admit to it now.

Keep in mind a good "Ignore List" can be as good or better than a Respected Members List.

 

[Mystic]

Well yes it is true that various people here no doubt have an informal list of who they consider to be respected members here. But there is no secret 'respected members' list as far as I know.

I do have my own informal list of people I respect here and people I do not respect. I have no respect for somebody who attacks other members here in a personal manner. First of all, anybody who does that must have very weak arguments to defend their point of view on anything. And they must have never taken debate in high school or college.

Second, it becomes pretty obvious very often in a post if somebody is more concerned with attacking certain other people rather than discussing whatever is being discussed in the post.

I also get tired of people who try to promote some product here. It sort of becomes obvious that certain people here like to promote a product as compared to being somebody who just tried some product and had positive experiences with that product. For example I have had positive personal experiences with various Lubegard products but I am not trying to promote Lubegard products here. I have not even used any Lubegard products for a while. And I have no association with Lubegard in any way.

I get tired of the negative people here who try to make everybody's experience at this website a negative experience rather than a positive one. There are a few individuals here who obviously dislike you, Trav, me, and others here and like to attack us whenever they feel they can. It is sometimes extremely obvious who these negative people are in a post.

Now in order to have a fair and balanced discussion of any product here positive and negative experiences of that product has to be allowed. I want to hear both myself. But I don't want to see goofy personal attacks and demands for some detailed scientific proof when such proof is obviously not possible with many of these products. And then sometimes the people demanding such proof make claims for some product they are promoting and they have no such scientific proof themselves.

Another game that is played is to try to submit false evidence. Somebody will have a positive experience with some product and one or a few people show up and present extremely negative experience with that product that seems very questionable. For example, a while back somebody had a positive experience with a product and mysterious people showed up, many of them with almost no posts here at this website, badmouthing the discussed product.

We would all benefit from honest discussion about products at this website without all of the silly personal attacks and silly secret agendas and game playing. I want to find out if various products really do work or not.

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: Trav
Mori just what does the engine cleaning thread have to do with this thread? You are just pot stirring as usual and everyone here knows it.


One poster, as is his habit, equates personal testimony here as it would be in a court of law.

Thus, what is being established, per his habit, is an ongoing pattern by the same people of creating grief for those who have a contrary opinion.

Tell me, where was that "respected member's" response to this?

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
You're dreaming if you think that an oil additive will improve your fuel economy.


It doesn't exist. It never has. Why?

 

[Mystic]

I have always been a great believer demarpaint in the power of simply telling the truth. If a person tells the truth there should be no way to argue with the simple truth.

People want to be able to discuss various products here such as motor oil, oil filters, engine cleaners, oil supplements, etc. In a perfect world people could have honest and frank discussions here without anybody attacking somebody else and with none of the silly games and other nonsense. I think deep down inside most people here want that perfect world. But I also think there are a few individuals here who want to throw monkey wrenches into the works.

But I trust that the moderators will be able to determine from what is being said in posts who the decent honest people are who just want to discuss some product and those who would try to inflict pain on others and disrupt discussions.

 

[TrevorS]

The mods seem to have removed the original comment which personally attacked Trajan, calling his personal testimony "worthless" and "pollution".

Mystic, I am glad you notified the mods and are championing Trajan's right to give his personal testimony.

If they read through the rest of the thread, hopefully they will consider the claims that I am Mori and "maybe" I am a returned poster as personal attacks.

And, as you say Mystic, that those words were nothing to do with product but all about inflicting pain and creating disruption.

Let's return to the original topic of the thread. It was an interesting experiment by the OP.

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Trajan
Originally Posted By: Trav
Mori just what does the engine cleaning thread have to do with this thread? You are just pot stirring as usual and everyone here knows it.


One poster, as is his habit, equates personal testimony here as it would be in a court of law.

Thus, what is being established, per his habit, is an ongoing pattern by the same people of creating grief for those who have a contrary opinion.

Tell me, where was that "respected member's" response to this?

Originally Posted By: L_Sludger
You're dreaming if you think that an oil additive will improve your fuel economy.


It doesn't exist. It never has. Why?





You are still carrying on.
Since you resurrected this thread the other day in an attempt to somehow cast doubt on either my testing methods or implying that I was in some way untruthful or "fixed" my posted fuel purchases in order to achieve a specific result,which truthfully is nearly indescribably absurd.
When this idea of running a before and after was originally thought up it was because of several members posting about how much their vehicles had improved and Brule and I decided to use our vehicles as test mules because they had never been treated with anything before so it was a clean slate to get fuel consumption values from.
I did this so that it might help to avoid the thread hijacking that was going on because new members posed many questions in threads where mos2 was mentioned but not the thread topic.
I hoped it would add an actual real world driving situation and provide at least a possible answer to questions that have been asked 100 times and thereby helping the forum as a whole in regards to less off topic thread jacks and stop the bench racing posts.
Now because Trav,Dermapaint,Mystic and I became fast friends,and Trav is a automobile guru who has tried a vast array of products for crankcase deposit reduction the subject of mmo,kreen and auto-RX came up.
Trajan is,if you haven't guessed yet,likes auto-RX and Trav has posted numerous times on its inability to achieve results in his experiences using it,but has praised kreen's performance.
So Trajan being a compensated poster for auto-RX took aim at him. Dermapaint got caught in the crosshairs because he's recommended mmo for gently emulsifying deposits and since Trajan in typical form launching passive aggressive comments referring to "respected members",his obvious envy displayed every time he launches these attacks which I am sure is because he's not part of the respected member elite,which pains him,so we get his "opinion" in every mmo,kreen and now mos2 because I've had positive results in the past,and because these members took a shining to me Trajan feels he has to attack the "respected" part of respected member at every possible opportunity.
Poor Mystic gets ripped on because Trajan is jealous of the friendship that's grown between Trav and DP and Mystic's posts always tend to cut to the chase which doesn't allow Trajan to blast his explosive diarrhea agenda.
So all this negativity from Trajan is due to him questioning why these friends are considered "respected members" and he feels the title should also apply to him.

Anyways that's the long and short of it. Trajan instead of beating around the bush implying I'm a liar just say it,you have been implying it,as well as posting "respected members" as though it's a battle cry in a futile attempt at tarnishing the credibility and integrity of those you've been quoting.
Watching you these past weeks has created quite the self portrait and I actually felt sorry for you. All you have is this forum in your life and you've taken words from anonymous members so close to your heart that you feel you need to behave this way. It's truly sad.
I started this thread to post my personal experiences with a product to help inform fellow members and to have a real before and after. I have absolutely no reason to lie as it really doesn't benefit me in any way. Unlike you I don't get any free product,I buy it off the shelf like everyone else.
After the countless mos2 bash posts you've written over the past months you cannot actually believe that anyone here who's read them is going to believe you actually bought a can and used it.
That would be an act of treason in your mind,putting money in the wallets of the producers of a product that your enemy likes. You'd have better luck convincing the forum that M1 dissolved your engine.
However you did sucker Trevor into believing you,which says a lot too.
Anyways with this being the conclusion of my novel it's also the conclusion of me posting in this thread. You can carry on with polluting it,that's entirely up to you. Just remember that as members read this,and the other threads you've posted in they are laughing,even harder than I am.

I've no more time for this,although it's the best thread going lately. It's like flipping channels between Comedy Central and the learning channel. Trajan and Trevor,I'll be adding you to my ignore list however I'll be sure to toggle your posts every so often,they are comedy gold don't forget.

 

[wag123]

Actually, IMHO the mods could (should) remove pages 8 and up from this thread as they are mostly just a bunch of nonsense posts that have almost nothing to do with the original subject matter or discussion.
BTW, Thank You Clevy, Injured_Again, and Brule for all your time, effort, and expense. Some of us here really DO appreciate it!

 

[Mystic]

TrevorS, I am going to be very frank here. Trajan in a reply made a statement as to their being a 'respected members' list here and only respected members were allowed to say certain things, something like that. You supported Trajan and said that you would like to see that list. I don't think you were helping the situation any, TrevorS.

As far as I know there is no secretive 'respected members' list here. If I was a member of that secretive group I think I would know about it. I strive to be a very honest person and there is no such secretive 'respected members' list that I know of.

Trajan made some accusations that people were making 'unfounded accusations.' Well, as far as I am concerned the 'respected members' list is just such an unfounded accusation. Because I certainly know nothing about any such list. So how about we drop all of that right now unless you or Trajan can present evidence that there is actually this 'respected members' list?

I am tired of all of the personal attacks and the silly games. I come to this website to learn about automotive subjects, motor oils, etc.

A person should be able to begin a post here about trying some product, whatever that product may be, and tell us about his positive or negative experience with that product. There should be no personal attacks and there should be no silly games. The only way we can find out if various products may be any good or not is by people describing their personal experiences with a product in an honest manner, perhaps backed up by photographs or compression testing or whatever.

And I think this is the adult and manly way to do things.

 

[demarpaint]

I hate to see you leave this thread Clevy, for the record you're on my Respected Member List.

Once your Ignore List is tweaked posting will be better for you. Keep up me up to date with your MoS2 progress via PM or email. Thanks

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Clevy
You are still carrying on.
Since you resurrected this thread the other day in an attempt to somehow cast doubt on either my testing methods or implying that I was in some way untruthful or "fixed" my posted fuel purchases in order to achieve a specific result,which truthfully is nearly indescribably absurd.
When this idea of running a before and after was originally thought up it was because of several members posting about how much their vehicles had improved and Brule and I decided to use our vehicles as test mules because they had never been treated with anything before so it was a clean slate to get fuel consumption values from.
I did this so that it might help to avoid the thread hijacking that was going on because new members posed many questions in threads where mos2 was mentioned but not the thread topic.
I hoped it would add an actual real world driving situation and provide at least a possible answer to questions that have been asked 100 times and thereby helping the forum as a whole in regards to less off topic thread jacks and stop the bench racing posts.
Now because Trav,Dermapaint,Mystic and I became fast friends,and Trav is a automobile guru who has tried a vast array of products for crankcase deposit reduction the subject of mmo,kreen and auto-RX came up.
Trajan is,if you haven't guessed yet,likes auto-RX and Trav has posted numerous times on its inability to achieve results in his experiences using it,but has praised kreen's performance.
So Trajan being a compensated poster for auto-RX took aim at him. Dermapaint got caught in the crosshairs because he's recommended mmo for gently emulsifying deposits and since Trajan in typical form launching passive aggressive comments referring to "respected members",his obvious envy displayed every time he launches these attacks which I am sure is because he's not part of the respected member elite,which pains him,so we get his "opinion" in every mmo,kreen and now mos2 because I've had positive results in the past,and because these members took a shining to me Trajan feels he has to attack the "respected" part of respected member at every possible opportunity.
Poor Mystic gets ripped on because Trajan is jealous of the friendship that's grown between Trav and DP and Mystic's posts always tend to cut to the chase which doesn't allow Trajan to blast his explosive diarrhea agenda.
So all this negativity from Trajan is due to him questioning why these friends are considered "respected members" and he feels the title should also apply to him.

Anyways that's the long and short of it. Trajan instead of beating around the bush implying I'm a liar just say it,you have been implying it,as well as posting "respected members" as though it's a battle cry in a futile attempt at tarnishing the credibility and integrity of those you've been quoting.
Watching you these past weeks has created quite the self portrait and I actually felt sorry for you. All you have is this forum in your life and you've taken words from anonymous members so close to your heart that you feel you need to behave this way. It's truly sad.
I started this thread to post my personal experiences with a product to help inform fellow members and to have a real before and after. I have absolutely no reason to lie as it really doesn't benefit me in any way. Unlike you I don't get any free product,I buy it off the shelf like everyone else.
After the countless mos2 bash posts you've written over the past months you cannot actually believe that anyone here who's read them is going to believe you actually bought a can and used it.
That would be an act of treason in your mind,putting money in the wallets of the producers of a product that your enemy likes. You'd have better luck convincing the forum that M1 dissolved your engine.
However you did sucker Trevor into believing you,which says a lot too.
Anyways with this being the conclusion of my novel it's also the conclusion of me posting in this thread. You can carry on with polluting it,that's entirely up to you. Just remember that as members read this,and the other threads you've posted in they are laughing,even harder than I am.

I've no more time for this,although it's the best thread going lately. It's like flipping channels between Comedy Central and the learning channel. Trajan and Trevor,I'll be adding you to my ignore list however I'll be sure to toggle your posts every so often,they are comedy gold don't forget.


Clevy, thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed explanation.

It is truly illuminating!

 

[TrevorS]

Originally Posted By: Mystic
TrevorS, I am going to be very frank here. Trajan in a reply made a statement as to their being a 'respected members' list here and only respected members were allowed to say certain things, something like that. You supported Trajan and said that you would like to see that list. I don't think you were helping the situation any, TrevorS.

As far as I know there is no secretive 'respected members' list here. If I was a member of that secretive group I think I would know about it. I strive to be a very honest person and there is no such secretive 'respected members' list that I know of.

Trajan made some accusations that people were making 'unfounded accusations.' Well, as far as I am concerned the 'respected members' list is just such an unfounded accusation. Because I certainly know nothing about any such list. So how about we drop all of that right now unless you or Trajan can present evidence that there is actually this 'respected members' list?

I am tired of all of the personal attacks and the silly games. I come to this website to learn about automotive subjects, motor oils, etc.

A person should be able to begin a post here about trying some product, whatever that product may be, and tell us about his positive or negative experience with that product. There should be no personal attacks and there should be no silly games. The only way we can find out if various products may be any good or not is by people describing their personal experiences with a product in an honest manner, perhaps backed up by photographs or compression testing or whatever.

And I think this is the adult and manly way to do things.


Mystic, I've agreed with much of what you've said but have to respond to one point.

If Trajan said he felt there is a list of respected members and I asked to see the list, it doesn't mean I supported him. It just means I asked for the list.

Strangely enough, Clevy seems to have provided part of the list.

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Originally Posted By: wag123
Actually, IMHO the mods could (should) remove pages 8 and up from this thread as they are mostly just a bunch of nonsense posts that have almost nothing to do with the original subject matter or discussion.
BTW, Thank You Clevy, Injured_Again, and Brule for all your time, effort, and expense. Some of us here really DO appreciate it!

+ 100 for me.

I'll add to that with many hours of reading on cleaning threads and discussions that had Demarpaint, Trav, Mystic and many others have always seemed to add more open discussions and personal experience where other posters have always leaned more to a general bashing of products and members.

I don't do the ignore lists as none have really effected me (yet) BUT, when reading I do spend more time reading and trying to take in information from some where others I just kind of glance at or skip over. Ignoring makes for weird flow of the threads. I do the same on other forums that I'm on also. One that I had complained about based on bashing etc. actually became a moderator and edited posts if he didn't like how it was reflecting his opinion. It's better after many complained but pretty much all of his replies barely get a glance from me. Others that didn't like it I haven't seen post in the forum in a long time. They might read but not post who knows.

 

[SteveSRT8]

Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Keep in mind a good "Ignore List" can be as good or better than a Respected Members List.


An excellent point as always! Keep it going, guys, it's theater at its finest...

 

[Trajan]

Originally Posted By: TrevorS
Originally Posted By: Clevy
You are still carrying on.
Since you resurrected this thread the other day in an attempt to somehow cast doubt on either my testing methods or implying that I was in some way untruthful or "fixed" my posted fuel purchases in order to achieve a specific result,which truthfully is nearly indescribably absurd.
When this idea of running a before and after was originally thought up it was because of several members posting about how much their vehicles had improved and Brule and I decided to use our vehicles as test mules because they had never been treated with anything before so it was a clean slate to get fuel consumption values from.
I did this so that it might help to avoid the thread hijacking that was going on because new members posed many questions in threads where mos2 was mentioned but not the thread topic.
I hoped it would add an actual real world driving situation and provide at least a possible answer to questions that have been asked 100 times and thereby helping the forum as a whole in regards to less off topic thread jacks and stop the bench racing posts.
Now because Trav,Dermapaint,Mystic and I became fast friends,and Trav is a automobile guru who has tried a vast array of products for crankcase deposit reduction the subject of mmo,kreen and auto-RX came up.
Trajan is,if you haven't guessed yet,likes auto-RX and Trav has posted numerous times on its inability to achieve results in his experiences using it,but has praised kreen's performance.
So Trajan being a compensated poster for auto-RX took aim at him. Dermapaint got caught in the crosshairs because he's recommended mmo for gently emulsifying deposits and since Trajan in typical form launching passive aggressive comments referring to "respected members",his obvious envy displayed every time he launches these attacks which I am sure is because he's not part of the respected member elite,which pains him,so we get his "opinion" in every mmo,kreen and now mos2 because I've had positive results in the past,and because these members took a shining to me Trajan feels he has to attack the "respected" part of respected member at every possible opportunity.
Poor Mystic gets ripped on because Trajan is jealous of the friendship that's grown between Trav and DP and Mystic's posts always tend to cut to the chase which doesn't allow Trajan to blast his explosive diarrhea agenda.
So all this negativity from Trajan is due to him questioning why these friends are considered "respected members" and he feels the title should also apply to him.

Anyways that's the long and short of it. Trajan instead of beating around the bush implying I'm a liar just say it,you have been implying it,as well as posting "respected members" as though it's a battle cry in a futile attempt at tarnishing the credibility and integrity of those you've been quoting.
Watching you these past weeks has created quite the self portrait and I actually felt sorry for you. All you have is this forum in your life and you've taken words from anonymous members so close to your heart that you feel you need to behave this way. It's truly sad.
I started this thread to post my personal experiences with a product to help inform fellow members and to have a real before and after. I have absolutely no reason to lie as it really doesn't benefit me in any way. Unlike you I don't get any free product,I buy it off the shelf like everyone else.
After the countless mos2 bash posts you've written over the past months you cannot actually believe that anyone here who's read them is going to believe you actually bought a can and used it.
That would be an act of treason in your mind,putting money in the wallets of the producers of a product that your enemy likes. You'd have better luck convincing the forum that M1 dissolved your engine.
However you did sucker Trevor into believing you,which says a lot too.
Anyways with this being the conclusion of my novel it's also the conclusion of me posting in this thread. You can carry on with polluting it,that's entirely up to you. Just remember that as members read this,and the other threads you've posted in they are laughing,even harder than I am.

I've no more time for this,although it's the best thread going lately. It's like flipping channels between Comedy Central and the learning channel. Trajan and Trevor,I'll be adding you to my ignore list however I'll be sure to toggle your posts every so often,they are comedy gold don't forget.


Clevy, thanks for taking the time to post such a detailed explanation.

It is truly illuminating!


You know what's funny? Here we have another poster ignoring all the claims/proof, ranging form Dnewton3's and Gary Allan's, all the way to Mystics's multiple postings, that this product actually works.

Jealous of "friendships" between anonymous pixels on a screen? Really? Seriously?

 

[Trav]

No its not funny. Why do you keep polluting this thread with this tripe?
This is just another veiled attempt at hijacking another thread or is there some valid reason bringing Dnewton3's and Gary Allan's names into this MoS2 thread?

Wait let me get my can..

 

[Clevy]

Originally Posted By: Trav
No its not funny. Why do you keep polluting this thread with this tripe?
This is just another veiled attempt at hijacking another thread or is there some valid reason bringing Dnewton3's and Gary Allan's names into this MoS2 thread?

Wait let me get my can..

They were mentioned because they are "respected members",which the poster longs to be,hence his infatuation.
I'm sure he quoted me however his words aren't worth the time investment,nor will I dignify them.
Again. It's an obvious that he feels he should have his thoughts and words given the same weight as the respected members however since most skim,or ignore them completely like me he is on a mission to somehow strip them of that respected member moniker since he's unable to acquire it.
I will admit I do miss reading his flailings, but since I refuse to dignify and thereby ignoring and not respecting his voice I'll just have to deny myself the hilarity of it all.
So uhhhhhh yeah.

And I do thank those members who did read and appreciate the effort Brule,injured and I put in trying to add to the forums knowledge base.
We are all aware that each persons results will vary and not everyone gets a nice increase in fuel economy however everyone(worth reading about) who posted that they used it did feel as though their vehicles running condition did improve in some way.
Since none of us(well maybe a few)have the ability and the facilities to run a test in a controlled environment under consistent conditions,we are just going to have to accept the many posts from members stating their results.
And since we all operate in the real world(most?)I feel that a mans testimonial qualifies as fact. It is in their eyes so its fact in mine n
Unless of course they're engaged in an obvious clash and pushing an agenda,then of course I won't respect their words,nor accept them as truth.

Disclaimer.
I don't sell nor receive any monies in relation to any product I use in my vehicle. In fact the opposite is true. The stuff costs me money however in almost every application I've used it in there was an improvement in one or more of the following:
Fuel economy,the compressors and generators ran longer per tank,some vehicles saw a significant gain on the highway,nothing measurable in the city
Engine vibrations reduced enough to notice and measured using a glass of water placed on my air box
Oil consumption. Compressors and generators that consumed enough oil to warrant daily checks ended up requiring less and in some cases no added oil.
Reduction in engine noise at start up and while running. Every example mos2 was used in was less noisy.
Extreme cold starting: my moms car which would require plugging in at night in order to start due to an extremely slow turning over turned over fast enough to start without being plugged in when operating under the same -40 winter morning temps.
And the best result of using mos2. Watching Trajan mount some kind or war against any and all that are considered respected,and watching him pollute every thread the product is even mentioned in is by far the greatest result n
I had no way of knowing a man would go to pieces like this. I guess the opposite would occur once the safety of the screen is gone. His passive aggressive attacks are an informative action as is his entire posting history.
I feel sad for him. To mount such an aggressive campaign over a thread about an oil additive certainly says all that's needed to know.

 

[JHZR2]

OK, enough. Time for lockdown.

This is going to turn into a situation where if certain users post anything in this topic section, they will earn themselves a ban.