Ban the check engine light!

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Does it bother you that with all the technology and information in cars today, all you get is a 'check engine light' and it does not tell you what the problem without going to a service place and paying an inspection fee? I know many auto parts stores will scan the code for free, but there is no reason the manufacturers can not incorporate a message or the code at no cost.

Here is a article talking aobut petition you can sign advocating legislation to require this in cars.

http://jalopnik.com/5876878/sign-the-petition-to-ban-the-stupid-check-engine-light
 
I think Chrysler vehicles would still blink the CEL on startup into the early 90's. The oldest foreign cars I can remember would be late 80's/early 90's and they never gave any info. I agree it would be helpful especially since most new cars come with a lcd info display.

On the other hand, an OBDII reader can be had for 20~30 bucks.
 
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Second that.

They make everything more interactive, so why not make troubleshooting more interactive with the infotainment center. they should make the CEL as warning for the driver (instead of completely banned) to check the infotainment console to see what's wrong with the car and possible solutions.
 
Some cars have procedures for getting data from the LED trip meter, though I don't believe any show DTC's (e.g., my old Focus had a sequence to follow before the display would indicate certain engine parameters.)

I can't imagine it would be hard for manufacturers to incorporate another bit of logic to allow DTC's and nothing more to be displayed in the same manner. This alone would save tons of time and help immensely with trouble-shooting intermittent CEL's, where the code clears prior to being scanned (e.g., my old Focus would throw a CEL often, but cleared while driving, and did not remain on for the first three trips to the dealer - very frustrating!)

I still think that the CEL has its place, energizing solid for minor issues and blinking for major, though it would be nice if a specific level of severity could be indicated (e.g., emissions equipment code vs misfire code.)

A bit off-topic, but something similar would be nice for all detrimental issues, such as over-heating and charging system casualties. One step more would require something like an acknowledgement (via push-button or voice command) that the driver realizes that further operation of the vehicle could result in catostrophic failure, such as in the case of an over-heating engine. How many stories have we heard where friends or relatives continued to drive while the engine coolant temp gauge silently warned of impending doom, unbeknownst to the operator. Some new cars don't even have the dummy gauge.

Sorry for my digression, but it seems that data like the aforementioned could easily be incorporated into newer info-tainment systems, if not every vehicle, even if only simply.
 
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LOL!

With the technical complexities of modern, emissions-compliant, computer controlled OBD-II systems, the only way to warn avg joe drivers who only care for fueling up the vehicle, get in an drive mentality is the all-summarised CEL light. There's no way beyond that in hopes of otherwise warning them of imminent failures pending.

Sure! petition to do away with the CEL light, what next? manufacturers that would throw avg joe drivers the full diagnostic codes in their face when something goes wrong??

This is being downright silly, if not ignorant.

Q.
 
Also: a bit of backsight:

When did avg joe driver ever care to learn how to read a voltmeter/ammeter/oil pressure gauge to the point where factory includes a proper one in their makes? How many of them? Manufacturers eventually realised that and do away with gauges(and now completely w/o any, ha!) with no reading scales on them...

So, what does that imply?

Q.
 
I'm afraid I would have to agree with Quest, folks already ignore warning lights anyway, so what good is putting the extra smarts in to show the DTCs? If I had a nickel for every time I've passed a car on the road or pulled up next to someone at night and seen red or amber lights glowing on their dash... Well, I'm sure I could come up with something expensive to do with it.
 
I just posted a relevant discovery I made with a rental car this week in another thread. Take a look:

https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2500059&#Post2500059

I have no problem with the CEL as a catch-all warning, PROVIDED you have enough instrumentation to see if its actually something critical (at a BARE minimum oil pressure, coolant temp, and a voltmeter or ammeter, but more options are always better).
 
CEL's, these days, are kinda useless.

Most cars will run for thousands of miles with one on, without incident. If fact, a lot of cars do.

CEL's don't point out anything really important these days - just electronic 'hiccups'.
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
CEL's, these days, are kinda useless.

Most cars will run for thousands of miles with one on, without incident. If fact, a lot of cars do.

CEL's don't point out anything really important these days - just electronic 'hiccups'.


Sorta true. Most cars have a "check gauges" light and chime for something serious like loss of oil pressure or overheating, and if its a serious emissions problem (something that could melt the catcon to a yellow-orange blob of slag and burn the car up for example) the CEL blinks and chimes repeatedly.
 
Manufacturers make the assumption that people are idiots. That is simply not the case. Look around, human beings have accomplished all sorts of amazing things.

Provide the information in a menu, accessible to those so inclined to retrieve it.
 
My '94 Jaguar displays its engine diagnostic codes onboard - not sure about the transmission codes, think it takes a GM code reader to display those.

Never a service issue with the '04 Jaguar, so I don't know if it has OBD display onboard.

Onstar will give the DTC's, I'm told, on the '08 - '09 Pontiacs, although I have not had a service issue to verify this.

Aren't there enough laws already? Let the marketplace work this out.
 
The CEL/OBDII is very useful. It tells you that you need to hook up your scanner and read some codes. My experience is limited to VWs, Mazdas, and Toyotas, but they all work as expected as far as I've ever been able to tell. Yes, you need some working knowledge of automobile systems and you probably need a FSM. It's a complex system, I'm not sure what else you would expect. Oh, or you could take your car to a mechanic who is already trained with these skills.

robert
 
My new car has a proceedure with the ignition key and the gas pedal to bring up the check engine flashing. I just have to look up the code on my phone and i can confidently go to the dealer after that. It flashes like the old obd-1 ford flashes. I did find a wi-fi scan tool that i can use with my phone for pretty cheap. It can tell me aanything I want to know about the car even while driving. I dont think im gonna get it, well maybe?
 
Originally Posted By: addyguy
CEL's, these days, are kinda useless.

Most cars will run for thousands of miles with one on, without incident. If fact, a lot of cars do.

CEL's don't point out anything really important these days - just electronic 'hiccups'.


Yeah like minor EVAP leaks. I like how GM also includes a "check gauges" light sometimes. (and even a "check gas cap" note in the odometer message center.) A dinger to alert one to overheating etc is often useless when it's the same noise for "fasten seat belts", "key in", "headlights on" etc. My cutlass ciera had a dinger if you left a turn signal on for more than a mile, I bet that scared many blue-hairs witless!

If we let codes be read easily (or reset!) from the dash, the reset button would just become another "snooze" button.

If a CEL comes on flashing, you're misfiring, seek help immediately. If it comes on steady, shoot, use your wits, is the car running or shifting any differently? We figured out we had to bring the car in for service before 1982.
 
Originally Posted By: Dave Sherman
I'm afraid I would have to agree with Quest, folks already ignore warning lights anyway, so what good is putting the extra smarts in to show the DTCs? If I had a nickel for every time I've passed a car on the road or pulled up next to someone at night and seen red or amber lights glowing on their dash... Well, I'm sure I could come up with something expensive to do with it.


Id agree too. Most people are too careless or dumb to pay attention.

That said, the data is more or less free. If my car is smart enough to tell me which headlight or taillight is burned out, my MPG and miles to empty, it is more than smart enough to at least spit out the code.
 
Originally Posted By: bepperb
I think Chrysler vehicles would still blink the CEL on startup into the early 90's. The oldest foreign cars I can remember would be late 80's/early 90's and they never gave any info. I agree it would be helpful especially since most new cars come with a lcd info display.

On the other hand, an OBDII reader can be had for 20~30 bucks.


If you key my Jeep on and off, 3 times fast w/o starting it, it will display the code/codes. No scanner required.
 
Originally Posted By: Quest
LOL!

With the technical complexities of modern, emissions-compliant, computer controlled OBD-II systems, the only way to warn avg joe drivers who only care for fueling up the vehicle, get in an drive mentality is the all-summarised CEL light. There's no way beyond that in hopes of otherwise warning them of imminent failures pending.

Sure! petition to do away with the CEL light, what next? manufacturers that would throw avg joe drivers the full diagnostic codes in their face when something goes wrong??

This is being downright silly, if not ignorant.

Q.

agreed. I was in Louisiana recently at the in laws and I drove my MIL's car. the CEL was on. I asked my FIL about it. he's like 'oh, the smog light? that just means the so-and-so is-whatever' (I forget what he said exactly)
point being, you don't want the 'average' person deciding when something is important enough to fix. if they had a readout telling them the evaporator emissions canister is bad, they are just going to figure 'who cares?'
the 'average' person figures if it still starts up and gets me to work, it's ok.
the CEL forces a person to get the dagnammit thing checked, and (hopefully) fixed.
 
Originally Posted By: demarpaint
Originally Posted By: bepperb
I think Chrysler vehicles would still blink the CEL on startup into the early 90's. The oldest foreign cars I can remember would be late 80's/early 90's and they never gave any info. I agree it would be helpful especially since most new cars come with a lcd info display.

On the other hand, an OBDII reader can be had for 20~30 bucks.


If you key my Jeep on and off, 3 times fast w/o starting it, it will display the code/codes. No scanner required.


X2 My Jeep's the same.
 
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