One more time, banning a specific breed or breeds won't work. There are plenty of other breeds to abuse and create problems. We need to change the behavior of the owners of vicious dogs. I am sick of knee jerk ban this and that.
Ban Pit Bulls
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I agree that it really comes down to the owner. We need a three strike law for dog bites.
First Strike: Owner gets his left nard cut off.
Second Strike: Owner gets his right nard cut off.
Third strike: You're outta the ball game.
I didn't read all of the posts here, but I do feel the need to chime in. My grandfather had a pitbull and it was the nicest dog you could ask for. There was absolutly no reason to ever be scared of this dog. It was very kind and loving. The only thing you ever had to worry about was being licked to death.
I enjoy pets and you'll never hear me condemn any dog, regardless of breed, unless that dog is dangerous. The only do to ever bite me was a bassett hound. This particular dog had a very bad attitude. He was finally put down after biting a child. If I had my way, I would've made sure the dog never bit again after he made his first attempt at agression towards any human, but he wasn't my dog.
I guess my point is that a large number of pets could easily harm or even kill their owners if the wanted. We can't blame an entire breed for this. A pitbull can be just as loving as a golden retriever.
My parents have a german shepherd / collie mix. She is a very nice dog, but was abused prior to my parents getting her. Because of this, she can get defensive at times. They have admitted that if there were children in the house, they wouldn't be able to trust her. She has been with them for about 7 years now, and there have been no incidents because she isn't left alone outside or with children.
Dog owners need to get to know their dogs and understand how they react to different situations. If you find that they can get defensive or possessive, you need to deal with this accordingly.
[ June 11, 2005, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: medic ]
I enjoy pets and you'll never hear me condemn any dog, regardless of breed, unless that dog is dangerous. The only do to ever bite me was a bassett hound. This particular dog had a very bad attitude. He was finally put down after biting a child. If I had my way, I would've made sure the dog never bit again after he made his first attempt at agression towards any human, but he wasn't my dog.
I guess my point is that a large number of pets could easily harm or even kill their owners if the wanted. We can't blame an entire breed for this. A pitbull can be just as loving as a golden retriever.
My parents have a german shepherd / collie mix. She is a very nice dog, but was abused prior to my parents getting her. Because of this, she can get defensive at times. They have admitted that if there were children in the house, they wouldn't be able to trust her. She has been with them for about 7 years now, and there have been no incidents because she isn't left alone outside or with children.
Dog owners need to get to know their dogs and understand how they react to different situations. If you find that they can get defensive or possessive, you need to deal with this accordingly.
[ June 11, 2005, 10:37 AM: Message edited by: medic ]
I was never around a dog that had a problem with me except one, a pit-bull, "Pete". He lived on my street with some of the young people at school, ownership of him transfered every semester. Anyway, the dog would look for me in a whole house full of people and proced to bite me. Maybe it's my Alpha thing? The "owners" would just move him to another area until someone else let him out....back to the same thing. I stood on his head until he yelped once, then the owners got the idea. I've had Rotts and Rott mixes, totally different dog imo, unless it is trained to kill. My current lil Rot-looking mix was shreaded open on his side when I found him. A 6 inch gash with necrotic flesh, I asked the neighbourhood ghetto kids he was running with who was going to get him fixed-up? Noone had any money so I took him to U.Penn Vet. Best dog ever. All dog owners should have insurance, then let the insurance co actuarys figure out what is dangerous as far as dogs and owners. "Ok, you're 19 and want 3 pit-bulls?, that's $4000 a year in insurance". 60 y/o with a Poodle? $40 year.
While spay/nutering tends to reduce tendencies to bite, it is completely effective in preventing passing on genetic agressiveness. It would also put pressure on people owning breeding stock. Properly train and control your dog or lose its breeding potential.quote:
Originally posted by moribundman:
I'll consider any animal (or human) that can reach my groin area a potential threat. Body mass, size, size of mouth and teeth are also to consider.
''That seems more of a size thing than specific to any breed. Get rid of ALL larger dogs?'' Labman
Neutered dogs don't bite? How about putting rubber crowns over their teeth?
After reading the article in SF it makes perfect sense how the 12 year old kid was killed Screwy Mom
"It's Nicky's (12 year old who was locked in the basement bc mom felt one of the doge could not be trusted) time to go," she said in the interview. "When you're born you're destined to go and this was his time."
"It's Nicky's (12 year old who was locked in the basement bc mom felt one of the doge could not be trusted) time to go," she said in the interview. "When you're born you're destined to go and this was his time."
Poor kid was doomed with a "mother" like that. Punish the poor kid because the dog was "iffy"...Lock your KID in the basement because the DOG is bad????? ***?
"She said she was worried about the male dog, Rex, who was acting possessive because the female, Ella, was in heat."
And then the all too common: "My kids got along great with (the dogs). We were never seeing any kind of violent tendencies." (Except for the one time Rex killed my first born male child.)
Get your story straight lady!!
[ June 12, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
"She said she was worried about the male dog, Rex, who was acting possessive because the female, Ella, was in heat."
And then the all too common: "My kids got along great with (the dogs). We were never seeing any kind of violent tendencies." (Except for the one time Rex killed my first born male child.)
Get your story straight lady!!
[ June 12, 2005, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: sbc350gearhead ]
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While I don't disagree on putting pessure on dog owners, I believe it will make only people with common sense comply. I've yet to see "pet inspectors" make sure pet owners comply with local (spaying/neutering) law.
Dogs are already the most manipulated, domesticated species I can think of. With owning certain breeds comes increased risk, simply due to the size and strenght of the animal. Eugenics is a bad idea. Anybody remember Hitler? Does anybody really think a dog that is built like a fighting machine with the capability of crushing human femur does not pose a risk simply due to its innate capability? You wouldn't get a teacup yorkie to herd sheep or to protect your Matisse, right? You'd get a Rottweiler or some other beast capable of doing the job for which it was created. That's not to say a yorkie won't fiercely fight or be a decent guard dog, but he won't be able to tear your jugular out and break your neck. Common sense suggest to have pets that most likely won't be able to harm anybody in the family. Come to think of it, while I love cats, they give me the willies. Imagine a housecat the size of a puma. I'm sure we'd see lot of "accidents."
As for that "mother" locking the kid up instead of the dog (or getting rid of it), that's just plain insane and shows arrogance (ie "My dog is a gentle dog") and lack of common sense. Alas, anybody can have kids without a license.
By the way, the house where this happened is right across the street from Golden Gate Park.
None of the breeds identified as Pit Bulls run over 62 pounds, or at least not their breed standard. There are plenty of larger breeds, Great Danes, Irish Wolf Hounds, Giant Schnauzers, Belgian Malinois, Newfoundlands, not to mention mixed breeds that often seem to be half hybrid vigor. And don't minimize other dogs jaw strength. My sweet, little, gentle Lab, Daisy, destroyed a Nylaball, 3'' of hard, solid Nylon. Yet after she graduated as a dog guide, her partner allowed her to play with the neighborhood children. Then there is the Galileo Souper Bone, an extra tough, solid Nylon about 3'' in diameter and 7'' long, the only thing that will stand up very long with some dogs.
I am really appalled at lack of knowledge and logic in many of the posts in this thread. I am wonder if some people are deliberately posting nonsense to waste everybody's time. Too bad they don't have a life.
labman:
Gotta love those Nylabones!!! Our house is littered with 'em. I just have to be careful walking around the house barefoot in the dark...
Steve
Gotta love those Nylabones!!! Our house is littered with 'em. I just have to be careful walking around the house barefoot in the dark...
Steve
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Well, labman, in the city most people don't have the large breeds you list. The lethal "accidents" keep happening with a pretty limited number of breeds, and while those are not neccesarily tall or very heavy, they are very strong dogs. Not to mention size of a dog is relative. A dog that does not pose a serious threat to me, may well be able to harm a little kid.
Remember, we are not talking about people getting bitten, which is nasty enough, but people getting torn to bits. As for jaw strenght, not all dogs have the same power and capacity for clamping their mouths shut while you bash their brains in.
Remember, we are not talking about people getting bitten, which is nasty enough, but people getting torn to bits. As for jaw strenght, not all dogs have the same power and capacity for clamping their mouths shut while you bash their brains in.
I think I would add population density to the factors in the likelyhood of a dog attack. If there are no people around, the chance of a bite goes down. Like in a crowded city, chances go up and insurance too.
Density is a big share of the problem, but it's the density of the skulls of the owners more than the population density.
The density of the skulls of those screaming for a ban is high too IMO.
It would be effective to be able to charge,try and punish the dog owner for the injury/fatility the dog caused as though the owner had commited the attack himself.
It wouldn't have much effect on the Bevis and Butthead methlab big dog owners, but the wankers that just get big dogs as manhood substitues would think twice about getting their macho dogs.
Responsible dog owners who properly train and control their dogs and say dog owners should be held responsible for their dogs actions should have no problem with actually taking responsibility and having full accountability for their dog's actions.
[ June 13, 2005, 12:38 AM: Message edited by: XS650 ]
How about we ban stupid people? Oh that would only leave aboue 1% of the world's population. These dogs are like any other animal, sweet until corrupted by people through in-breeding and bad ownership. A friend of mine has a Pit Bull and it was the nicest dog you could imagine.
Consistent proesecution and civil suits against dog owners whose dogs attack people makes more sense than 'banning' any certain breed IMO.
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