Average Repair Bill at a shop

[doublebase]

Guess it depends what you read including on here. Many say it is due to uneven amount of friction material.

personally, I’ve studied it enough to think rotors do get warped. However, that doesn’t occur as often as people think.

anytime people have a shudder “oh it’s warped.”
Nope. Not always.

Solved: The Mystery of Warped Brake Rotors

www.mechanic.com.au

Warped brake rotors: There's no such thing

Debunking the myth of warped brake rotors. Learn why brake rotors don't actually warp and what really causes brake pedal pulsation.

ricksfreeautorepairadvice.com

The problem is everything in those articles lead to a warped rotor: the high spots on the rotor, the pad material...all lead to heat, which leads to the metallurgy changing in the rotors itself, which generates excessive heat and a warped rotor. One leads to the other. And then you put it on the lathe and it’s clearly warped. If you run a dial indicator on it, it’s warped.

Those articles literally list the causes of a warped rotor, and all of those things happen. Daily.

So, there’s two things that have always caused a pulsation, excessive lateral run out (warped rotor) or parallelism (high spots on a rotor). The parallelism is actually worse because it actually changes the metallurgy of the metal (and technically you’re not supposed to even cut those rotors) because the metal has changed, and you can’t remove those new characteristics of THAT metal. And it will just pulsate again.

So, if parallelism happens more often than excessive lateral run out...we shouldn’t be cutting rotors at all. I guess.

 

[doublebase]

That has not been my experience. I've had rotors resurfaced when the pads were changed, because they had grooves worn in, but the rotor has a min thickness rating and in more recent decades rotors had less material, there often isn't enough material remaining to resurface them. Granted, higher quality rotors may be thicker too. Once you (or a shop) puts some cheap generic on, it may already be unfit for more than one tour of duty.

When I did it, I had no problem with them lasting till new pads were needed again, as long as pins and slide rails were clean and lubed so that didn't cause problems, except in the early GM FWD era (late 80's to early '90's) where they were still putting small 14" wheels on full sized sedans and thus small rotors too. The result was faux-warpage (if not real warpage) no matter which option you chose, unless you drove like a grandma using the brakes minimally which isn't possible in areas with other drivers and hills.

For better or worse, the internet made it far easier to get good pricing on major brand rotors, and labor to cut them went up, so it makes less sense now than it did 20+ years ago, but it sure seems more environmentally friendly to reuse a rotor rather than scrapping or recycling.

I’m not sure what you’re saying.

Are you saying that today’s rotors are thinner/cheaply made and can’t be cut? Are you saying that the rotors from 1985-1995 were too small and couldn’t be resurfaced? Are you saying that low quality products run rampant through the aftermarket, and in some cases the OE, industry? And can’t be cut?

Because if that’s what you’re saying, I agree.

But it also looks like you’re saying that at some point in time you were able to cut rotors on your vehicles with success: and depending on when that was/what type of cars you’re talking about...I’d agree with that too. Because there was a point when cutting rotors were acceptable and a normal thing to do. They were thick, they were high quality. I don’t think that time is now...I think that time has passed (for the most part), but I imagine there are exception in rotor quality/size/effectiveness. I think the actual weight distribution of the car and the design of the brake system probably has something to do with it too.

 

[Dave9]

I’m not sure what you’re saying.

Are you saying that today’s rotors are thinner/cheaply made and can’t be cut? Are you saying that the rotors from 1985-1995 were too small and couldn’t be resurfaced? Are you saying that low quality products run rampant through the aftermarket, and in some cases the OE, industry? And can’t be cut?

Because if that’s what you’re saying, I agree.

But it also looks like you’re saying that at some point in time you were able to cut rotors on your vehicles with success: and depending on when that was/what type of cars you’re talking about...I’d agree with that too. Because there was a point when cutting rotors were acceptable and a normal thing to do. They were thick, they were high quality. I don’t think that time is now...I think that time has passed (for the most part), but I imagine there are exception in rotor quality/size/effectiveness. I think the actual weight distribution of the car and the design of the brake system probably has something to do with it too.

I'm stating that today's rotors don't have as much reserve thickness, trying to reduce weight and cost. It doesn't mean they can't be cut, just that the threshold goes down depending on amount of wear.

The rotors from that era, whether you cut them or not, were insufficient size for the vehicle.

Yes, I was able to cut rotors and it worked out fine, and yes times have changed because automakers now see it as some scheme to minimize cost and maximize fractions of a % fuel economy which ultimately hurt consumers who can DIY.

Back to small rotor size, it matters tremendously. Fortunately we are past that era, today it is unheard of to use 14" wheels on a full sized sedan or pickup.

 

[PandaBear]

Was at the dealer last week. Heard an advisor recommending a brake job to a customer on the phone. New pads and resurface rotors, $435.

That's actually not bad these days. I was quoted that about 10 years ago. I declined of course.

My typical repair bill, so far has been $500-700 for non head gasket (wheel bearing, starter, coolant bypass hose diagnostic / fix, AC refrigerant pipe, etc). Most of my small repair are DIY unless it is seriously hard to deal with, and twice my head warp due to cooling system issue and my mechanics did the head straightening and top end "rebuild" (head gasket, measurement, cleaning, etc) for $2000 about 5 years ago.

These days cars are just too expensive to repair, not blaming the tech as cost to run a shop is high and cars are more automated in production so repair cannot compete with replacement after reliable life is over. $1k here and $2k there adds up pretty fast, then an EV battery swap every 12 years don't look so bad all of a sudden, or a $4k new Prius battery pack every 15 years / 200k miles.

 

[doublebase]

I'm stating that today's rotors don't have as much reserve thickness, trying to reduce weight and cost. It doesn't mean they can't be cut, just that the threshold goes down depending on amount of wear.

The rotors from that era, whether you cut them or not, were insufficient size for the vehicle.

Yes, I was able to cut rotors and it worked out fine, and yes times have changed because automakers now see it as some scheme to minimize cost and maximize fractions of a % fuel economy which ultimately hurt consumers who can DIY.

Back to small rotor size, it matters tremendously. Fortunately we are past that era, today it is unheard of to use 14" wheels on a full sized sedan or pickup.

Ok, I agree...rotors are seem “thin” compared to rotors of years ago because it obviously is cheaper to make them, and manufacturers aren’t sitting there thinking...we have to make these rotors thick enough so they can be cut a couple times and pad slapped (so we can save those customers money). All they care about is if they’re thick enough to be safe and dissipate heat.

The thing I don’t get is that you keep mentioning not using smaller wheels anymore. I see plenty of cars with 17 inch, 18 inch wheels with rotors that don’t look big underneath them. I’d also say...I haven’t seen a 14 inch rim on a full size pickup or sedan in maybe over 20 years (maybe a Camry from 1999ish).

 

[Dave9]

^ The rotor doesn't have to look especially big to still substantially be larger. For example I just looked up a GM with 14" wheels and the rotor was 10.3" diameter. Looked up a more modern vehicle with 18" wheels and rotor was 14" diameter.

Yes it's been about 30 years since GM used such disproportionately small rotors and while a Camry isn't really full sized, 14" were a base option through about 2001 or so.

 

[Gimpy1]

So here’s a good sample. Wife spent $680 Dealer on 80k service for Tiguan which included slew of items including transmission fluid, brake fluid, filters , plugs , oil change.

The sell up (declined) was the worn brakes for $680 x 2 for rotors / pads front and back. I am hoping for 1/2 to 2/3 at our independent. They made a video to show them at 2mm - 3mm pads.

Alot of shops are taking video or pics not for customer service but for CYA. The shop I managed never resurfaced rotors it was all changed, pads and rotors. This was to reduce comebacks but we never used good stuff just cheapo stuff from the parts store you could buy plus the mark up and the labor @135/hr. So it was usually 270 bucks for labor plus parts. I couldn't believe people would come in and have us do brakes. At least at the dealer you get oe parts.

 

[14Accent]

Brake jobs are THE most gravy job I can sell at work, minus a few outliers. We charge 1 hr. labor for front disc brakes, 1.2 for rear disc. That's for a normal brake system. Obviously, drum brakes pay more. Electric parking brakes built into the calipers? Costs more due to the extra time to retract and reset the system. Fixed front calipers, aka Toyota Tundra/4-Runner/Tacoma? Costs more. We don't resurface rotors, everything gets replaced. Average front brake job cost? $290-$330. Average rear? $310-350. And I sell them by the bucket load. I had 5 alone this past Monday, as of today I've probably done a dozen and it's only Thursday.

People are spending WAY more on car repairs lately than they have been the last 12-24 months. With the rise in used car prices and the lack of inventory, people just figure it's more economical to drop $3k on a 10 year old car than it is to drop $30k on a new Elantra. I just had a customer spend almost $5k on a 2000 F-350 he recently bought for $4,500. I couldn't argue with his logic: where else are you going to find a rock solid 1 ton 4x4 truck with less than 175k miles on it with brand new brakes, steering components, intake manifold, spark plugs, complete fluid service for less than $10k. You won't. The math doesn't lie.

 

[OVERKILL]

^ The rotor doesn't have to look especially big to still substantially be larger. For example I just looked up a GM with 14" wheels and the rotor was 10.3" diameter. Looked up a more modern vehicle with 18" wheels and rotor was 14" diameter.

Yes it's been about 30 years since GM used such disproportionately small rotors and while a Camry isn't really full sized, 14" were a base option through about 2001 or so.

2018 Silverado 1500 V6 still had 13" rotors, which look tiny behind the larger wheels, but yes, they are definitely larger than the "back in the day" baby brakes.

 

[repairman54]

Brake jobs are THE most gravy job I can sell at work, minus a few outliers. We charge 1 hr. labor for front disc brakes, 1.2 for rear disc. That's for a normal brake system. Obviously, drum brakes pay more. Electric parking brakes built into the calipers? Costs more due to the extra time to retract and reset the system. Fixed front calipers, aka Toyota Tundra/4-Runner/Tacoma? Costs more. We don't resurface rotors, everything gets replaced. Average front brake job cost? $290-$330. Average rear? $310-350. And I sell them by the bucket load. I had 5 alone this past Monday, as of today I've probably done a dozen and it's only Thursday.

People are spending WAY more on car repairs lately than they have been the last 12-24 months. With the rise in used car prices and the lack of inventory, people just figure it's more economical to drop $3k on a 10 year old car than it is to drop $30k on a new Elantra. I just had a customer spend almost $5k on a 2000 F-350 he recently bought for $4,500. I couldn't argue with his logic: where else are you going to find a rock solid 1 ton 4x4 truck with less than 175k miles on it with brand new brakes, steering components, intake manifold, spark plugs, complete fluid service for less than $10k. You won't. The math doesn't lie.

How the world has changed. Back in the early '70's when I wrenched on cars in a Esso station before I changed fields we charged more for disc brakes than drums. New tech. upcharges for a simpler job LOL. Now it's reversed, must be the leading or trailing shoe placement quandary.