Avatar & Star Wars

[d00df00d]

A few reviews are comparing Avatar to Star Wars (the 1977 one). I think the comparison is apt. Since many of you must have seen Avatar by now, and at least some of you probably saw the original Star Wars movies when they came out, I'd like to hear what you all think.

(I'm going to do my best to avoid spoilers here, of course.)

Both had highly formulaic plots that were pastiches of memes and myths; Star Wars was basically a demonstration of Joseph Campbell's hero cycle and had themes from mythologies all over the world, whereas Avatar used more modern and relevant themes (corporation vs. nature, losing touch with the natural order etc.).

Both had fairly ingenious ways to turn religion and superstition into something tangible.

The point of both movies was simply to immerse you in a fantasy world that, for its time, was revolutionary in the rich detail in which it was presented. Both projected simple, intuitive personal struggles into surreal scenarios. Neither had a particularly deep message, but both were fairly nuanced if you're paying attention. In other words, somewhat facile (Hollywood would probably say "accessible") as explorations of philosophy, but awesome as works of filmmaking.

Thoughts?

 

[Boomer]

Star Wars embodied myths. Avatar was a propaganda movie espousing treason and how bad corporations are. Same old left wing stuff other movies incorporate.

 

[buster]

Have yet to see Avatar. Big fan of Star Wars. Hopefully this week I'll see it. 2 hours and 40 minutes is going to be tough to sit through.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
Star Wars embodied myths. Avatar was a propaganda movie espousing treason and how bad corporations are. Same old left wing stuff other movies incorporate.

Treason is against a nation. There was no human nation involved in Avatar. The humans were employees of a corporation with hired mercenaries as escorts, on an expedition that seemed far too expensive and time consuming to abandon. I guess I can't speak for you but I didn't even catch a whiff of politics in that story.

Star Wars, on the other hand, made some very heavy-handed references to politics. The Rebellion is nothing if not treasonous, and it is justified by the way the Empire fits all the Nazi stereotypes. If you're annoyed for political reasons about the triumph of conscience over corporations, you should be incensed about George Lucas's equation of national solidarity with intolerance and evil.

 

[TrentMiller]

Part of the Star Wars bag was the graphics, and the same it true for avatar, we saw it in imax 3d and it was simply amazing.

I've never in my life seen a 3d movie before, so it had a pretty big impact.

I like sci-fi so the plot was good for me, and the aesthetically pleasing characters do a lot to pull the story through. I was not bored and i usually leave most movies early.

I think avatar will make some people think about the way they live and the impact they have within there culture, most of us will just say wow, and move on.

 

[Augustus]

I haven't seen Avatar...but appears formulaic. I think comparing it to "Dancing With Wolves" would be more accurate. You know, depressed Civil War soldier wants to see the West before it's exploited. Alone again at abandoned fort. Dances with a dog. Meets Chief Sitting Bull. Introduced to depressed captured white woman. Falls in love. Eat buffalo together. Refuses to join up with regiment. Is misunderstood (of course). Turns native. Wanders off alone with woman to avoid capture and reintegration with the Borg. Please call the National Center for Missing and Exploited Children.

Would that about wrap it up?

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Augustus
Would that about wrap it up?

Well I haven't seen Dances with Wolves, but that summary doesn't seem to fit Avatar. Can't say more without spoilers. However, that comparison has been made by some reviewers, although only in the loosest terms (i.e. almost as tagline fodder in most cases I've seen).

 

[Augustus]

I'm sure Avatar is a great movie. I plan on seeing it.

But there are few new literary themes in the world not used in one form or another by others - the settings are what change: futuristic, space, sci-fi, Roman, Greek, Napoleonic warriors, etc. Even in HG Wells' "The Time Machine", a man goes back in time and falls in love with an innocent girl in an "innocent age" by abandoning his own world. "Mutiny on the Bounty" (a true story) with Mr. Christian abandoning the "evil Corporate" British Navy and living on a non-exploited world among South Seas Island natives. Romeo and Juliet, the forbidden love between a couple from different societies, he from skid row, she with a rich daddy or did I get those backwards? And West Side Story, right?

Even the obscure novel, "Green Mansions", is about a man out in the lost jungles of Venezuela falling in love with an innocent girl then destroys in his anger, the Indian tribes who kill her.

Even Castro and Che Guevara, both spoiled brats from rich families, changed their societies (for the worse) in an attempt to right what they perceived to be wrongs.

It's an attractive theme for those who long for better situations.

Write your own novel along the same lines but use your favorite setting and become famous. A Hummer meets a Yugo, for example.

 

[Samilcar]

dOOd, it's like you took the thoughts directly out of my brain. After seeing Avatar, the only movie experience that I can directly compare it to is seeing Star Wars in the theater as a young lad in the 1970's. Both movies had formulaic plots, but envelope pushing visuals and special effects.

Buster, you won't even notice the length of the movie as you're watching it. It flies by.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I think comparing it to "Dancing With Wolves" would be more accurate.


It was actually rehashed Fern Gully with aliens instead of fairies and nymphs (yet including fairies and nymphs - sorta)


..but otherwise does appear to fall into the contemporary format of not masking stuff in the dripping honey sweetness of delusions of morality and propriety. They get in the way of progress. This "other side of the story" will get old in time.

I prefer the bold dark comedy of stuff like RoboCop and Starship Troopers. I think that they're oddly the most accurate depictions of life as we live it. A total fraud/mockery ..but you have to participate anyway, so roll with the punches and make the best of it.

 

[Benzadmiral]

Originally Posted By: Augustus
I'm sure Avatar is a great movie. I plan on seeing it.

But there are few new literary themes in the world not used in one form or another by others - the settings are what change: futuristic, space, sci-fi, Roman, Greek, Napoleonic warriors, etc. . . . Romeo and Juliet, the forbidden love between a couple from different societies, he from skid row, she with a rich daddy or did I get those backwards? And West Side Story, right? . . .

It's been a while since I read R & J ("this two hours' traffic upon our stage"), but I think both the Montagues, Romeo's people, and Juliet's Capulet family were noble houses (". . . both alike in dignity"). But I agree, the themes are eternal and have been used before. What counts is what Goethe said: "How shall we plan, that all be fresh and new / Important matter, yet attractive, too?"

I was going to pass on Avatar, but after reading the comments here, I think I may have to give it a whirl.

 

[d00df00d]

Originally Posted By: Benzadmiral
What counts is what Goethe said: "How shall we plan, that all be fresh and new / Important matter, yet attractive, too?"

Great poetry, and very relevant IMO.

 

[jimbeamalki]

I'm cheap---how long do I have to wait for Avatar to come out on DVD so I can rent it for $4.00????

 

[kb01]

Originally Posted By: jimbeamalki
I'm cheap---how long do I have to wait for Avatar to come out on DVD so I can rent it for $4.00????


I also hate being ripped off at the theater but I highly recommend seeing it in 3D on the big screen.

 

[saaber1]

I thought both Star Wars (prior the the second set of three movies I mean) and Avatar both had ample opportunity to push the viewer too far into the unbelievable (and thus ruining the movie) and they successfully avoided it. By drawing the audience so far into another fantastic reality the viewer can just enjoy what they are seeing. Much in the same way a good book does.

Both succeeded in drawing the audience into another world without forcing them to constantly question what they are seeing against their own reality. For example, those movies don't force you to say, "oh come on, there is no way that would happen" like in countless other movies which simply push it too far or fail to make the alternate reality believable.

 

[ArrestMeRedZ]

The only problem I had with the movie was the villans (the corporate head rep and the security chief) were one-dimensional idiots. As such, they were easy to dislike, but not very believeable. At least Darth Vader had some admirable qualities.

 

[d00df00d]

I thought the security chief was plenty admirable in his own way. In the words of one reviewer, he "has more steel in him than any of his weapons." (http://john.purplestateofmind.com/?p=916)

But you're so right that they were very flat characters. Don't forget that most of the characters in the original Star Wars were, too. They didn't get their depth and dimension until the later movies.

 

[HyperJinx]

Originally Posted By: Boomer
Star Wars embodied myths. Avatar was a propaganda movie espousing treason and how bad corporations are. Same old left wing stuff other movies incorporate.


Yep.. I do not like movies that make me feel like someone is trying to force a point of view on me. I think that it is years too soon to make any star wars compairison. I saw Star Wars at the drive in theater back in 77 and a week has not gone by since then that I havent seen some reference to it. There is something to be said about a movie that powerful and I seriously doubt that anyone will know what Avatar is 30+ years from now.

 

[d00df00d]

I'm starting to think it's no longer possible for a movie to capture us the way Star Wars did. Let's not forget that a large part of its success and power was the fact that nothing before it had come close, and most of the people who are now talking about it were people who grew up with it in one way or another.

Epic, absorbing, surreal movies and stories are no longer unusual. Avatar might not stick out for kids growing up with this profusion of rich fantasy worlds, but I'd bet that neither would Star Wars, even if it came out today with modern special effects and production techniques. This would be an interesting experiment IMO.

I also think that a lot of Avatar's staying power will depend on whether there is a sequel that adds a lot of depth to the story and characters. If not, the world of film will definitely move on.

 

[Pablo]

Avatar Summary