AutoRX, 24k miles BMW, Synthetic Oil

[Jim 5]

Sorry,

I should have referred to LL-01 as the BMW spec. However, I believe that M1 0w40 meets both BMW LL-01 and BMW LL-98(whatever that is).

Also, cost is not an issue. I don't have an issue with draining 7 litres of M1 at 2 or 3K if that's what's required to complete the AutoRX treatment.

 

[Jim 5]

Oh, and one more point:

THANKS SHORTYB for taking the time to post your UOA on your 330i. It makes me feel alot better to know about your UOA at 12.5k. I wouldn't go that long myself, but having seen that, I feel a little better about the previous owner having done so on my baby!

 

[Jim 5]

Well the AutoRX is in!

After doing some research, I believe the moderator on the AutoRX website confirmed that Shell Rotella "Synthetic" 5W-40, which is a Group III-based HDEO would be a good choice for a cleaning phase, since it is a dino oil, but also could be called (in America) a synthetic.

Forgive my lack of knowledge, but does these mean it's an ACEA A-3 oil?

My preference is to comply with some of the warnings given above, even if I am being overly cautious. If so, this would seem to be a pretty good compromise on the "don't use synthetic in the rinse phase" issue for the guys who don't like the idea of putting "dino" oil in their motor.

Could I have some thoughts on this point?

 

[jaj]

Jim 5

In your last post, you refer to Rotella Synthetic 5w-40 for the "cleaning phase". Any oil, including the M1 0w-40 you bought, will work fine for the "cleaning phase" when you have the high concentration of ARX in the oil. It's the "rinse phase" that most of us were responding to, which follows the cleaning phase.

I can't offer expert or qualified advice - Terry Dyson (a site sponsor) can, and you should email him. That's what I did, and with Terry's help, I've put my 2003 M5 on a lube regimen that includes his oil analysis interpretation services, which you can buy through Blackstone. The advice is well informed and very pragmatic, his service is excellent, and he can tell you what you want to know. It costs a few dollars per analysis read, but you get what you pay for, and you get comfort that the engine is running well and that your lube regimen will not risk longevity.

That said, if the oil doesn't say "ACEA A3" on the label, it hasn't been tested. I'm sure it will work fine anyway, but if you're on warranty, then I wouldn't do it.

Cheers
JJ

 

[Audi Junkie]

OMG, any dino 10w-40 or 15w-40 will be fine in that engine for 3000 miles.

 

[F1Crazy]

quote:

---

Originally posted by segfault:
It's funny that BMW NA can't get their story straight on the oil requirement. I e-mailed them to ask for their currently recommended oils, and here is the relevant excerpt from the reply:

quote:

---

BMW recommends BMW High Performance Synthetic engine oil, Castrol Synthetic, Mobil 1 Synthetic, and Valvoline High Performance Synthetic - all with a weight of SAE 5W-30.

---

---

The problem is with folks at BMW North America because the list of BMW approved oils exists and you can find it on BMW TIS CD. I can probably find older list that doesn't include LL-01FE or LL-04 oils.

 

[jaj]

F1Crazy

If you've got the list on the TIS CD, even if its out of date, I'd really appreciate knowing what's on it for LL-98 and LL01 oils.

Thanks!

JJ

 

[Jim 5]

JAJ,

I noticed I made a typo and should have realized that it would quickly be caught on this page!

I did mean the rinse phase for the Rotella.

I would also like to find out about this list of oils on the BMW CD. The ones I've noted as being OK are as follows:

Oils OK per calls to BMW:
- M1 5w30
- Castrol Syntec 5w30
- Valvoline High Perf. Synth 5w30

Oils that indicate on their packaging they meet BMW LL01 or LL98 spec:
- Castrol Syntec 5w40 (Belgian made - "designed for use in VW and Mercedes vehicles")
- German Castrol...can't remember the grade...5w50?
- M1 0w40

Anyone seen any others? I'd love to have a list!

 

[Jim 5]

JAJ,

Have you had any difficulty sending used oil across the border for Dyson analysis?

Did they send you an oil collection container, or did they tell you what kind to buy and then you sourced one in Canada?

 

[deepsquat]

you can always have your oil analysed in Canada and then have Terry interpet your analisis through email

 

[Jim 5]

JAJ,

Your advice was if I insist on using a "synthetic" oil for rinse needs, I should stick with a group III synthetic. I think I've found a good candidate in an obvious place - the BMW branded Castrol TWS 5w30 "synthetic"..... According to Cary:

"A few important things about the BMW oil a) it is a Group III hydrocracked oil which cannot be called synthetic in Europe, b) it is a heavy 30 weight (30 weight can run from 9.3-12.5cst@100c, the BMW oil is about 12.2cst), c) it is a ACEA A3 oil which means that it is approved for longer change intervals and has a HTHS (High Tempurature High Shear) measured at 150c of greater than 3.5.
Seems like this would be a good choice, if I understand that the BMW Castrol will be less likely to inhibit the AutoRX cleaners with "polarization" in the same way that rinsing with a group IV synthetic like M1 0w40 would. Plus BMW couldn't give me any grief over use of this oil!

I know Frank doesn't recommend this..and I know it won't work as well..but I'm just trying to get the best result possible from a synthetic rinse cycle with AutoRX.

 

[Volvohead]

I doubt you're going to find many HDEO oils with an A3 rating; most are designed for commercial/diesel duty and aren't tested for many gasoline approvals. That doesn't mean they wouldn't meet A3 if tested, however.

I wouldn't fixate on an A3 or manufacturer approval on the rinse oil. Unless you're tracking the car or planning to otherwise stress the engine, a strong conventional HDEO and/or Group III base oil will be fine in a NA engine for 2,500 miles. It's not going to be in there that long. Your BMW six is not THAT hard on oil anyway.

The bigger no-no is using any oil with esters or polarizing agents, which will mess up the ARX. That's why a cheaper dino is commonly recommended for rinses.

The Rotella is a fine choice.

 

[jaj]

Jim 5

I'm sorry I missed your post three days ago!

I've done oil analysis with Terry both by having my local Caterpillar dealer (Finning, same as in your area) do it, and by sending samples to Blackstone. Finning can sell you the sampling pump (that's where I got mine - about $50 or $60 or so, if I recall correctly - available from stock). The pump makes it simple to take samples. Remember to buy extra tubing - it's eight cents a foot, and the piece that comes with the pump is too short for a BMW engine. You use each length of tubing once and then discard it, by the way, so I bought a 100 foot roll.

Both analysis services work fine. Terry does a lot of volume with Blackstone, so he knows their instruments and measurements inside out, and that probably makes it easier for him to deliver his usual high quality results.

If you order the sample bottle kit from the Blackstone website, it will arrive in a couple of weeks in the mail. When I mailed my sample back to them by air mail, I got no hassle at the post office, it only cost $5 or so (I sent a used sample and a new unused sample together - ask BK for a spare sample bottle - the virgin oil analysis is free and they need it to calibrate their instruments to get accurate readings on the used oil). They had the results back to me within seven days. No fuss, no muss, no bother.

When you send the sample to Blackstone, specify the Dyson Analysis Package and you get the full-meal deal, and they charge it all to your credit card when they read the sample.

Anyway, I'm not going to pass on the advice on rinsing that I got from Terry - I'm using a different oil than you are - but if you ask him he'll give you a useful response. Not that the other responses here aren't useful - they're all good advice, for sure!

Cheers
JJ