Automatic Stop and Start
- Thread starter rrretiree7
- Start date
Just a relevant question.
There are Start-Stop systems which employ a "rewired alternator" such that the cranking is supplied by the alternator which is turned into a motor, no?
I recall seeing large alternators (with belt shrouding) in catalogs which were designated for S-S.
There are Start-Stop systems which employ a "rewired alternator" such that the cranking is supplied by the alternator which is turned into a motor, no?
I recall seeing large alternators (with belt shrouding) in catalogs which were designated for S-S.
I would think those cars would be battery eating machines.,,
Originally Posted by BigCahuna
I would think those cars would be battery eating machines.,,
Why? They are designed for this. The battery in my Rav4 is huge. And the system only uses S/S when the conditions are appropriate. Time will tell.
My Rav4 has a button to disable the S/S each time you drive. You can also "disable" the system if you keep your foot very lightly on the brake pedal. Enough to stop the car but not enough to trigger the S/S.
I would think those cars would be battery eating machines.,,
Why? They are designed for this. The battery in my Rav4 is huge. And the system only uses S/S when the conditions are appropriate. Time will tell.
My Rav4 has a button to disable the S/S each time you drive. You can also "disable" the system if you keep your foot very lightly on the brake pedal. Enough to stop the car but not enough to trigger the S/S.
My car has it. If I know I will be at a light for a while, I let it work. There is no switch to disable it but there are tricks to fool it.
The system only works when the car is warmed up, in drive, hood closed, there is no large need from the HVAC system, and there's a time period from the last S/S cycle. The most annoying time is when I am the sole driver on the road and approach a stop sign, or a right turn on red with no traffic.
I disable mine by flicking my shifter to manual mode, problem solved. As I pull away I put it back in D. Available aftermarket solutions tell the car that the hood is open. There is some belief that these systems can also mess with safety systems in the car like airbags so that's not viable for me. Since my car is designed for it the starter is beefed up and an AGM battery is a must.
The system only works when the car is warmed up, in drive, hood closed, there is no large need from the HVAC system, and there's a time period from the last S/S cycle. The most annoying time is when I am the sole driver on the road and approach a stop sign, or a right turn on red with no traffic.
I disable mine by flicking my shifter to manual mode, problem solved. As I pull away I put it back in D. Available aftermarket solutions tell the car that the hood is open. There is some belief that these systems can also mess with safety systems in the car like airbags so that's not viable for me. Since my car is designed for it the starter is beefed up and an AGM battery is a must.
I don't have the s/s in either of my two Nissans. I think it would be tough for me to adapt to it. Old dog here. Another reason to maintain my modest fleet.
Not sure on a Jeep but on F150's down by the brake pedal there's a block of wire terminals. The black wire on the bottom can be unplugged which will disable the start stop feature.
It controls the lighting if your towing. If you tow just plug it back in for proper function
It controls the lighting if your towing. If you tow just plug it back in for proper function
I consider Start/Stop an abomination from several perspectives. I doubt if any powertrain engineer ever said "this will be a great idea to prolong engine life". Over the last 3-4 years since S/S has been widely implemented, my wife and I have made a point of conducting an informal poll of folks who own cars equipped with it: It is universally despised. My daughter has a '17 Pacifica with it...a terrific vehicle, but it has already eaten its' first set of batteries within 30K miles...and she disables it 90% of the time. The added control system complexity to make it work as seamlessly as possible adds cost and will decrease reliability, e.g. managing HVAC temp control or maintaining transmission readiness through various schemes. And the "hope" that all the vehicle systems have been beefed-up to deal with the potentially brutal duty cycle without reducing reliability is not borne out in real life.
The four-cylinder vehicles tend to shake like wet dogs during startup & shutdown...experiencing that 50+ times a day during a stop & go commute is great fun...
When new, the systems are pretty responsive, but as the vehicle ages and the fuel, ignition & start systems deteriorate, restarts will take more cranking. You'd better think twice before pulling out in front of another vehicle, since even when new it can take 1-2 seconds for the vehicle to respond to throttle input.
The four-cylinder vehicles tend to shake like wet dogs during startup & shutdown...experiencing that 50+ times a day during a stop & go commute is great fun...
When new, the systems are pretty responsive, but as the vehicle ages and the fuel, ignition & start systems deteriorate, restarts will take more cranking. You'd better think twice before pulling out in front of another vehicle, since even when new it can take 1-2 seconds for the vehicle to respond to throttle input.
Brings back memories. Halogen bulbs are too white. Fuel injection is complicated and Bubba at the garage can't work on it. Radial tires have weak sidewalls. The list goes on and on. Like it or not, the technology is here to stay. As far as increased wear, that was solved decades ago. Delivery trucks start at least 150 times every day and their starters seem to last.
Ugh, we have several roundabouts in NJ where approaching traffic yields to traffic already in the counter clockwise circular roadway and once in has the right of way to exit as desired. Not a nice time to feel your car shut down and wonder how many cranks it's going to take to re-start. No thank you.
Originally Posted by LC
Your Cherokee has a button down by the shifter to turn off the Start/Stop option. The feature on Jeeps uses an auxiliary battery to run the start and stop. If you look at the front of the large battery you can see the smaller motorcycle size battery that is used to run the start and stop. Your AC will continue to run if stopped, but if you are stopped for an extended period of time the motor will start back up, works the same way with the heater on.
You can shut if off with the button, but you cannot permanently disable it. Check your owners manual it has good description of when it works and how it works..
My 2017 and 2019 cherokee dont have a separate battery was this a 1 year feature?
my 2 cents if you dont like it.. just make hitting the button part of starting the car.. takes aprox 1second.
start car
push button
put into gear.
Your Cherokee has a button down by the shifter to turn off the Start/Stop option. The feature on Jeeps uses an auxiliary battery to run the start and stop. If you look at the front of the large battery you can see the smaller motorcycle size battery that is used to run the start and stop. Your AC will continue to run if stopped, but if you are stopped for an extended period of time the motor will start back up, works the same way with the heater on.
You can shut if off with the button, but you cannot permanently disable it. Check your owners manual it has good description of when it works and how it works..
My 2017 and 2019 cherokee dont have a separate battery was this a 1 year feature?
my 2 cents if you dont like it.. just make hitting the button part of starting the car.. takes aprox 1second.
start car
push button
put into gear.
Some start stop systems don't use the starter.
https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/env/i-stop/
https://www.mazda.com/en/innovation/technology/env/i-stop/
My Jetta and A4 both have start/stop and both have a button to turn it off. However I can control them at a stop light by just using enough pedal pressure to keep the car stopped if I know the light is ready to turn or a short time light. If its going to be a long light I just press the brake a little harder and the engine stops. When getting ready to move I just slightly decrease the pedal pressure and the engine starts again getting it ready to go. It doesn't bother me at all.
Originally Posted by MCompact
As long as I can set the start/stop to default to off I'm fine with it. I would never buy a vehicle that did not give me that option- or at least would allow that option through coding.
As mentioned earlier most systems don't allow it to be turned off permanently. It's a gas saving measure to boost their CAFE numbers. If everyone shut it off, it wouldn't do it.
Mercedes has had it on their E class since 2014. The biggest issues with it is that the aux battery they use tends to wear out quickly, lots of times it gets replaced under warranty so that means they're just lasting 3-4 years or less. No one really reports the starters failing though so that doesn't seem to be a valid concern. Of course when the battery goes bad, the system is automatically disabled but then you have a warning message on the dash. There are defeat devices out there, but they cost a few hundred.
As long as I can set the start/stop to default to off I'm fine with it. I would never buy a vehicle that did not give me that option- or at least would allow that option through coding.
As mentioned earlier most systems don't allow it to be turned off permanently. It's a gas saving measure to boost their CAFE numbers. If everyone shut it off, it wouldn't do it.
Mercedes has had it on their E class since 2014. The biggest issues with it is that the aux battery they use tends to wear out quickly, lots of times it gets replaced under warranty so that means they're just lasting 3-4 years or less. No one really reports the starters failing though so that doesn't seem to be a valid concern. Of course when the battery goes bad, the system is automatically disabled but then you have a warning message on the dash. There are defeat devices out there, but they cost a few hundred.
Originally Posted by Vercingetorix
Brings back memories. Halogen bulbs are too white. Fuel injection is complicated and Bubba at the garage can't work on it. Radial tires have weak sidewalls. The list goes on and on. Like it or not, the technology is here to stay. As far as increased wear, that was solved decades ago. Delivery trucks start at least 150 times every day and their starters seem to last.
There was plenty of new tech on vehicles that went the way of dodo birds. Do you ask the salesman why the new car you're looking at doesn't have a rat's nest of vacuum lines and a smog pump? As Trav pointed out earlier. This is agenda driven tech. It wouldn't exist if it wasn't to meet some arbitrary metric.
Brings back memories. Halogen bulbs are too white. Fuel injection is complicated and Bubba at the garage can't work on it. Radial tires have weak sidewalls. The list goes on and on. Like it or not, the technology is here to stay. As far as increased wear, that was solved decades ago. Delivery trucks start at least 150 times every day and their starters seem to last.
There was plenty of new tech on vehicles that went the way of dodo birds. Do you ask the salesman why the new car you're looking at doesn't have a rat's nest of vacuum lines and a smog pump? As Trav pointed out earlier. This is agenda driven tech. It wouldn't exist if it wasn't to meet some arbitrary metric.
I liked the system on a GLS450 because there was not a dramatic change between the silence of engine turned off and engine on. But on an E350 with a 4 cylinder engine it was quite unpleasant.
As for the starter longevity, these are not the traditional starters we are used to. They will probably outlast the rest of the car.
As for the starter longevity, these are not the traditional starters we are used to. They will probably outlast the rest of the car.
