Automated Manual vs. Step Shift Trans.??

[doitmyself]

Can someone please explain in layman terms the difference between an automated manual transmission and a step shift transmission? Examples of each? This is related to Molakule's recent DW-1 ATF comparison article.

What type is my Hyundai transmission (6F24/ A6MF1) that allows me to bump my stick shift left/right to enter a gear manually? https://www.atsg.us/atsg/blog/a6speedfromkorea/

Is this the same as the Honda automated manual transmission Molakule references to DW-1 fluid, or is is something different?

Thank you!

 

[Rand]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

automated manuals are where you basically have a manual transmission that has been automated.. no torque converter.

Examples would be ford's infamous Powershift (focus) tranmission and VW's DSG

They are usually setup with multiple clutches and one engages while the other disengages to shift gears.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox

 

[Donald]

Originally Posted by Rand
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dual-clutch_transmission

automated manuals are where you basically have a manual transmission that has been automated.. no torque converter.

Examples would be ford's infamous Powershift (focus) tranmission and VW's DSG

They are usually setup with multiple clutches and one engages while the other disengages to shift gears.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct-shift_gearbox


Does not sound like they were a good idea.

 

[doitmyself]

Rand, does your example describe what Molakule is calling an automated automatic that requires a very different ATF?

Wikipedia also describes a "manualmatic": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumatic ......"an automatic transmission that allows convenient driver control of gear selection......Tiptronic', 'Geartronic', 'Touchshift', 'Sportronic', 'clutchless-manual' "

 

[clinebarger]

Search "DSG"......That will give you a basic understanding of a Automated Manual Transmission.

"Step Shift Automatic Transmission".....Could be referred to a "Conventional Planetary Automatic", The first mass produced one being a 4 speed Hydramatic....A GM division in the late 1930's. Just about every automaker & dedicated auto trans manufacturers (ZF & Aisin Warner) base their design around this concept.

Honda uses their own design philosophy......It does NOT use Planetary Carriers, It uses Main & Counter Shafts just like a Manual Trans, But has Clutch Drums/Hubs instead of Shift Forks & Synchronizer assemblies for the forward gears.
I can see why some would call this design a "Automated manual"......I would lean more to calling it a "Constant Mesh Automatic"
The reverse gear operation in this style IS identical to a Manual Trans.....Has a shift fork & a Cable that engages/disengages it. Also why they whine in reverse just like the Honda manual boxes.

Your Hyundai uses a "Conventional Planetary Automatic", As it's electric solenoid over hydraulic valve controlled......Tap shift/paddle shift can be easily adapted to the design.

There is also Synchronous & Non-Synchronous "Conventional Planetary Automatics"......Generally speaking, Tap/Paddle shift ability is exclusive to Non-Synchronous units.

 

[Rand]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
Rand, does your example describe what Molakule is calling an automated automatic that requires a very different ATF?

Wikipedia also describes a "manualmatic": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manumatic ......"an automatic transmission that allows convenient driver control of gear selection......Tiptronic', 'Geartronic', 'Touchshift', 'Sportronic', 'clutchless-manual' "


no that's basically just a conventional automatic transmission with a control to manually select what gear you want to be in.
ATF would be nothing special from that feature, just whatever the transmission normally required.

(ie mercon LV, dextron VI hyundai SPIII etc)

clinebarger is giving you a very correct and advanced answer.. you might comprehend better by googling some of that.

but basically with the advent of electronically controlled transmissions its easier to have extra "features".

For example some newer subaru cars have the same transmission but 1 will only have the gear shift.. and the other has the gear shift as well as steering wheel mounted paddle shifters to manually select the gear.
same transmission same atf.. just another way to tell it what gear you want it to be in.

 

[UG_Passat]

Acuras have available, a 8-speed dual clutch transmission WITH torque converter also

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by doitmyself
Can someone please explain in layman terms the difference between an automated manual transmission and a step shift transmission? Examples of each? This is related to Molakule's recent DW-1 ATF comparison article.

Is this the same as the Honda automated manual transmission Molakule references to DW-1 fluid, or is is something different?

Thank you!


What I am referring to in the article are the specific type of Honda transmissions in which the specific Honda DW-1 fluids are to used and the transmissions are commonly referred to as, and for lack of a better term, automated manual transmissions.

The analyses show the Honda DW-1 fluid to very different with respect to those fluids used in fully automatic, Step-Shift transmissions and the signature shows chemical components more suited for those automated manual transmissions.

The label on the Idemitsu type H-Plus fluid says it it is engineered for Honda DW-1 and Z-1 type fluids, but does not have the same chemical signature as does DW-1 or Z-1.

The label on the Valvoline MaxLife says it is "Suitable for Use in" Honda/Acura DW-1 and Z-1 fluids, but again, it's chemical signature does not jive with the Genuine Honda DW-1 fluid.

Can the Idemitsu and Valvoline fluids be used in automated manual transmissions, probably in the short term, but what about the long term effects?

 

[doitmyself]

Thank you everyone. That clears up my confusion. The Honda automated manual tranny is truly a beast of a different nature. I didn't want to sidetrack Molekule's VOA article comparing DW-1 to the Idemitsu/Valvolene claiming "suitable for", so I started this separately.

 

[Davejam]

Sorry couldn't someone link the forum thread you're discussing on DW-1 vs. Idemitsu/Valvoline?

 

[doitmyself]

https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/5169998/three-atfs-analyzed#Post5169998

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted by clinebarger
Honda uses their own design philosophy......It does NOT use Planetary Carriers, It uses Main & Counter Shafts just like a Manual Trans, But has Clutch Drums/Hubs instead of Shift Forks & Synchronizer assemblies for the forward gears.
I can see why some would call this design a "Automated manual"......I would lean more to calling it a "Constant Mesh Automatic."

The reverse gear operation in this style IS identical to a Manual Trans.....Has a shift fork & a Cable that engages/disengages it. Also why they whine in reverse just like the Honda manual boxes.


Thanks for the explanation.

Here is a link:

"Before DSG: The SMT
The dual-clutch automatic is a development of the sequential manual transmission (SMT), which is essentially a fully automated manual transmission with a computer-controlled clutch, intended to deliver stick-shift performance with automatic convenience...."

Automated Manual or DSG

 

[slacktide_bitog]

Castrol Full Synthetic ATF works well in the Honda automatics that are like the automated manual