Auto-RX & LC20 Experience

[Inliner]

First, this is an '89 Audi 5cyl I've owned for about 2 years which had significant sludging and a (few) noisy lifter(s). The lifter noise was so bad that the engine would run a little rough and idle lower while it was clacking. When the lifter stopped clacking (temporarily) the engine would smooth out and increase idle speed to normal (we're talking ~75 rpms here).

I started by installing an EaBP90 bypass filter a little over a year ago, and immediately began with a bottle of Auto-RX with a 1500 mile cleaning and a 2,000 mile rinse. The results were good. The lifter noise was still present, but I noticed that I never heard it after the car had been on a highway run - only before it was fully warmed up (even up to 10 minutes after startup). The engine then went on a diet of Rotella 15W40 for about 4 months.

With an oil change coming up, I decide to attack the lifter noise again. Another bottle of Auto-RX is ordered. This time, I took the cleaning phase out to 3,200 miles on Rotella T dino. Drop the oil - nice and golden still (thanks bypass filter!). The clacking lifter has officially been downgraded to a ticking lifter, and I no longer see a change in idle speed while it's ticking. In goes 5.5 qts of Castrol Tection 15w40 for the rinse. 250 miles into the rinse I get an itch and order a quart of LC20.

Underneath the oil cap I take a sample of the sludge off the cam cap with a flatblade screwdriver. It's hard crusty stuff, and looks just as bad as when I bought the car. In goes 5.5 oz of LC20. Yes, during my Auto-RX rinse phase.

Tonight, I'm now 750 miles into the rinse phase (500 miles with LC20 in the motor). I have noted that some of the past recent mornings I haven't heard a peep from my ticking lifter, and when I do, it's only for 10 or 15 seconds before it dissaspears. I pop the oil cap once more to see how it's doing, grab the old screwdriver, and am surprised at how easy it is to take a "sludge sample". The weight of the screwdriver alone is causing the sludge to lift off the cam cap in numerous places. A couple weeks back, I had to scrape it off with force.

So what was it I ask? The Auto-RX? The LC20? The Castrol Tection? A combination of the above? Of course, I see hope now. I want to get all of this black junk out of my engine, and finally switch this old girl over to synthetic and do some long OCIs (almost 175K miles and it doesn't burn or leak any oil). Common sense tells me to keep running this setup as long as I can, but then what? Amsoil flush? More Auto-RX? Straight LC20? Maybe an LC20 flush (dosing @ 4oz per qt of oil).

 

[Gary Allan]

I'd throw in another bottle of Auto-Rx and go about your business.

 

[Crashbox]

I did something not-too-dissimilar with my current ARX treatment.

After about 2800 miles on the Auto-Rx rinse phase I once again changed filters and split the difference between initial LC20 fill dosage and "the flush" dosage and added about 12 ounces of LC20 in my '95 Civic's crankcase. I plan on changing out the dino rinse oil and oil filter in 1000 miles which should be in a week or two.

I haven't noticed any major difference in my vehicle, probably because the innards are clean(er) from regular LC20 usage and the occasional Auto-Rx treatment. Your mileage may vary.

 

[Inliner]

I'm thinking that another round of Auto-RX may the be best and safest possible route to go as well Gary. I surmise that this sludge may have developed well over 10 years ago, and is just baked on to the metal (PO installed a new radiator, so the motor may have overeated at some point). Luckily, something in this current chemnistry has significantly softened it in the last 500 miles. Now, the Auto-RX might have a better chance at liquifying this stuff on the top end, and moving it down to one of the filters.

I think I'll keep adding the 1 oz of LC20 every 1,000 miles until I drain this brew.

 

[Frank]

Read this post (why would you need another product to protect oil oxidation?)"I am about 1000 miles into final rinse phase, I feel that all the junk has been released into the filter, but I will still be going another 2K to finish application, my reasoning is that my oil temperature is down by about 20 degrees, that reading was taken with an infrared gun aimed at the middle of the pan, the coolant temp is down, before it would stay alittle high even when cruising now when I come to a stop it goes up a little bit, then back down a bit while I am driving, before when I took a temp reading at the back of the head it was between 240 to 250 gegrees, now it is about 220 degrees, the car has more power, meaning that when I turn and hit the gas to get on to a major road it takes off like a rocket, changed oil filter at 500 miles and inside the filter, the oil that I dumped out was clean looking, not dark brownish gold like before, with the coolant temp gauge before if it got up to 190 it would stat there even with a 180 thermostat, now if I am sitting for a while maybe close to 185 or 190, then cruising back down to 180 or a little below, I should mention that since the car is not tested anymore you can guess about the stuff I removed, so there is no computer running anything, plugs look fantastic, no carbon residue, even though I feel that everything is out, I am not going to second guess Frank, I am going to change the filter Wednesday night or Thursday and see how things are doing, through this whole process oil that has been drained from pan has looked like a very slight dark gold not black, maybe all those filter changes, but oil dumped from filters has been darker than oil drained from pan, if you have a newer car with less than 20K do the maintenance dose so you do not have to go through what I am going through, I am doing maintenance dose on my 04 Marauder and my mileage coming back from N.Y. was 30.2 miles per gallon, the car is rated for 23 miles per gallon highway, I attribute some of this to Auto-Rx letting oil get to everywhere it needs to be"

These results all from new Auto-Rx Application Instructions

 

[Inliner]

Frank,

Yes, I read that post when it first popped up. The reason I tried the LC20 was because the Auto-RX was just not working on this stubborn baked on sludge. I wasn't concerned about controling oxidation, but more interested in whether or not it could do any cleaning where the Auto-RX had failed. Once I read that the chemistries were totally different, I figured I'd give it a shot.

I'm glad I did too. I honestly think it was what softened the deposits, and put me in a position to let the Auto-RX go to work and do it's magic. At least I hope so.

In a related issue, my father has an inherited a clean '91 F150 that has a similar problem (old baked on sludge). Last week he reported seeing heavy smoke while towing uphill. I ordered a bottle of Auto-RX for it right away. However, based on the results with my Audi, I'm going to start with a strong dose of LC20 in it for a few thousand miles before using the Auto-RX. With some luck, I won't have to pull the engine.

 

[Frank]

LC and Auto-Rx chemistries do not mix. Auto-Rx will drive LC into filter. Suggest you follow new Auto-Rx Application it works on type sludge your having problems with. One of the reasons we changed the mileage.

 

[Frank]

OLD Dyson Post

"LC" does not bond to engine parts it is a primary anti oxidant for the oil.

It has EP capability but how is proprietary.

There is no reason that BOTH products can't be used properly by those that care more about honest science over marketing.

Just not at the same time in the same unit.



Terry



Dyson Analysis

3679 CR 2184

Greenville, TX 75402

903 883 4661

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:

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I'm glad I did too. I honestly think it was what softened the deposits, and put me in a position to let the Auto-RX go to work and do it's magic. At least I hope so.

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I seriously think that Auto-Rx would have produced the results that you desired all in due time and may have been the softening agent. I really can't comment on LC. I've never used the product ..so I don't even have an opinion of merit to offer.

Now, and this is just my reasoning, there has to be some sensible limit to the amount of crud that can be liberated/suspended during one application. There would also be a limit to what one filter could contain in terms of loading. Many are limited to about 8-10gms of material.

Now I don't have a dog in the fight, so to speak. I don't sell either product. I've used Auto-Rx and seen the results ..so I can candidly comment on it.

Quote:

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In a related issue, my father has an inherited a clean '91 F150 that has a similar problem (old baked on sludge).

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I would recommend just using one or the other. Personally, I'd use Auto-Rx alone and see if you DON'T get the desired results given the proper time. Then when there's a bona fide failure of Auto-Rx to do the job (extremely unlikely, imo), THEN see what LC yields. When you play mix and match concoctions you cloud the results. This is just from the frustration that we've felt when we try and draw conclusions when you can't isolate performance due to too many variables in the mix.

ex: I did this and that happened.

Oh, really? That's odd since this typically can't result in that.

Oh, I forgot, I also did another this at the same time.

I see. So how do you know that doing this resulted in that ..and not the other that?

Well, I think/believe/feel/desire that "that" occurred ONLY due to my one "this" and not my other "this".

I see you're a man of faith.

 

[Inliner]

Quote:

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I see you're a man of faith.

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I can't argue Gary. The conditions for finding the true answer were not ideal with all the variables. I'm not knocking Auto-RX either. I still have faith that it's going to save this old car and many others. But, in this instance, I had it inside the engine for a combined total of 4700 miles (not counting the rinses) and the sludge was still hard to lift before the LC20 went in. So I got a little impatient....

 

[Frank]

Auto-Rx in a cleaning mode (combined or singular 1 or 2 applications)) for 4700 miles tells me something is wrong the old instructions called for 1500 miles per application only.

We changed the application instructions to make Auto-Rx easier to use-perform greater cleaning-with resulting benefits of friction reduction-increase in MPG.

If your not getting results please contact me direct at [email protected]
Thank You
Frank Miller

 

[Rick20]

I have never found LC20 to be very effective in dissolving any hardened sludge deposits. I have not seen any evidence that it will help the host motor oil suspend contaminants either. I speak only of a gallons use.

You have got to remember that ARX dismantles the binders in sludge sothat it gets slowly carried away. My guess is that these cam deposits would have rinsed away on there own.

Interesting story. I use a clear polypropylene 1/2 gallon jug to drain the oil from my JD lawn tractor. And I usually never get around to bringing it up for disposal, until I am ready to dumpe the next oil interval. Over a couple of years the amount of sediment from the oil drains in the bottom of the bottle became somewhat significant. I first though that a little fresh oil in the bottom would clean out the bottom with some swirling agitation. Very little impact. Next I tried an oil and LC mix. Swirled it around with little to no impact. Sure it darkened a bit but no real progress. Lastly I mixed a little ARX with some oil and swirled it around. The bottom of that PP jug was spotless. True story.

IMO don't think that LC can do half the cleaning job of ARX.
LC is designed to act as an antioxidant in motor oil, in other words a sludge preventer. But if you already have sludge or deposits, ARX is a far better option. ARX provides for slow methodical cleaning, and aid the oil in suspending these contaminants. There is never any chunking off of abrasive potentially damaging deposits liberated into the oil system. The products are not in the same league.

 

[Dr. T]

I never used rx, but have excellent lifter response from LC alone.

So, that along with "looks just as bad as when I bought the car" quote after 2 rx tmts....you guys make the proper conclusion as to which product works/ed better.