Auto industry complaints. Vent yours

[needsducktape]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
I have to say they have improved. I drove a 1.4 Turbo Cruise in the past 6 weeks. It was very nice and quiet inside. It seemed well buttoned up.

The numb electric power steering soured me on the car. I expected a little more zoom from the turbocharged engine, but it was adequate.

I liked the Mazda 3 better. I really don't think they are targeted and the same buyers. I ended up with a used Protege5.

But I think GM is moving in the right direction with the Cruise, interior included. Just get the power steering worked out and add some more zoom zoom and it would be a car I'd like to use for work everyday.

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: Brenden
How about being a little different??? why does it seem like every Gm vehicles interior has been total [censored] for the last 5 years..
.


I guess you missed the current Cadillac CTS (2008+), the current Malibu, the new Regal, Lacrosse and Cruze....etc.. All have great interiors that have even been noticed by the car magazines.




The Protege5 was a surprisingly fun car to drive- Last year I found one with only 30K and drove it for around 8K. They seem to be rust prone but otherwise a very easy vehicle to work on.

Also for a small car I was surprised I could only get 30mpg.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Spazdog

Maybe we should take the small truck off the "Chicken Tax". (I still don't know how Ford gets around the Chicken Tax with the Transit Connect)


They put rear seats and windows in them in Turkey then rip them out stateside before sale.

 

[Cutehumor]

auto industry, make a diesel hybrid. I like to see cars average 60mpg and up please.

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
How about Ford discontinuing parts only six years after they sell a new vehicle...

I'm a Bullitt owner, I know all about discontinued Ford parts...



Its not easy on the parts counter side hearing about it from customers. But in Ford's defense, it makes no sense having parts collect dust on their warehouses shelves when they could have parts that actually move and make them money. Until the parts that collect dust start to pay rent, they get purged and sold off to obsolete parts warehouses.

 

[buickman50401]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
How about a car door weatherstripping that doesn't freeze to the frame, and that doesn't dribble a shower on my seat when I open the door in bad weather?

How about ridiculously styled plastic headlights that yellow and give weak, diffuse light after a few years? Chevy Venture, I'm talking to you!

Spray it down with a $1.00 can of silicone spray. Use a rag. Squirt the silicone on the rag and wipe it down. 1 application before winter and perhaps 1 or two more during winter will solve this problem.

 

[needsducktape]

Originally Posted By: bdcardinal
Originally Posted By: needsducktape
Originally Posted By: Bluestream
How about Ford discontinuing parts only six years after they sell a new vehicle...

I'm a Bullitt owner, I know all about discontinued Ford parts...



Its not easy on the parts counter side hearing about it from customers. But in Ford's defense, it makes no sense having parts collect dust on their warehouses shelves when they could have parts that actually move and make them money. Until the parts that collect dust start to pay rent, they get purged and sold off to obsolete parts warehouses.


I always thought a car company had to carry parts for 10 years after the car was made?

Almost reminds me of "planned obsolescence" (add that to my list of complaints)

 

[buickman50401]

Originally Posted By: FL_Rob
Newer engine compartments that are purposely non-serviceable...too compact and/or poor space layout.In the same space,all basic mech. and maint. should be buyer/user friendly.I know they only want dealer techs to touch the engine,but every buyer is stiffed once the warranty runs out.Then it becomes a 'throwaway' car with most regular people (not us Bitogers),of course perpetuating once again...new car sales.Next ...Doors.In most 2d coupes they're big enough but they hinge a little forward of your knee,and you can't open the door any wider because somebody parked right up next to you so you have to pull a contortionist act to get in.4d aren't quite so bad.Next...deep dashboard intrusion ,total waste of space .In most vehicles, the waste of interior space is ridiculous.The only vehicle (that I've seen anyway)that doesent do this is the Honda Ridgeline, good for you Honda.Don't even get me started on the industry as a whole.

Honestly I was shocked how easy some of the fixes have been on my wife's Golf despite the fact that they try to dress up the engine compartment with the top end cover.

Coolant sensor took a small screwdriver to pull one clip and disconnect the harness. No coolant loss because its mounted vertically. 5 minute job.

Same with disabling the DRLs on the Golf. Remove the headlight switch by pushing in and rotating it counter clockwise. The whole assembly then slides out. Remove harness, bend over one pin on the back of the switch and reconnect the harness. No more DRLs.

Much easier than locating the wires and splicing in a bypass at the body control module to delete the DRLs on my Buick. I deleted the Buick's DRLs because the turn signal bulbs that are also used as the DRLs kept burning out due the method GM uses to power them through the BCM which results in overvolting (16+ volts vs the 14.2 the bulbs are rated for).

 

[bdcardinal]

Originally Posted By: needsducktape
I always thought a car company had to carry parts for 10 years after the car was made?

Almost reminds me of "planned obsolescence" (add that to my list of complaints)


No such law. They have to have them available throughout the warranty period and then beyond that its purely based on demand. Now if a vendor goes under, that is an exception. There are parts for the CVT on the Freestyles and 500's that are on backorder until 11/11/21 because the vendor went out of business and Ford is trying to source one.

 

[ffhdriver]

If you do some checking you'll find several articles on why this isn't a good idea. Diesel costs more than gasoline in most states. A diesel engine would add much weight to the car. Usual up charge for diesel engines.

 

[Smoky14]

Originally Posted By: jmsjags
manuals aren't sold here because, simply put, people don't buy them. everyone talks the talk online but when it comes time to buy they always spring for the slushbox!

I hunted for over 6mo to find my Acura CL with a manual shifter. Amazing all the dealers said "we can't keep a stick on the lot" Now since salesman never lie....there must be some out there somewhere.
Since the dealer makes a grand more on an auto, that could figure in there some place.

 

[javacontour]

I suspect the manual transmission issue is a convergence of factors. Some of them include:

1. Distracted Drivers. If you are enjoying your $5 coffee and talking on your cell phone, having to shift is probably not appealing.

2. Separate certification for emissions. Since there is no computer signaling the shift transitions, how does the PCM address the transitions when you suddenly shift. So there is separate programming for such a car. If you don't offer a manual, you don't need to code for such cars.

3. Fewer parts easier to stock for assembly and service. No need to stock both automatic and manual transmissions and all the assorted parts such as the different axles each car takes, no clutches, no clutch mechanisms, one shifter, etc.

4. Folks just don't know how to drive a stick. I wasn't taught in drivers ed, and that was 30 years ago. My kids didn't learn in drivers ed either. I taught my step-son. My step-daughter has said she wants to learn, but it's only a passing fancy. (Or she wants a cute guy to teach her.)

5. The automatics are getting just as good with respect to durability and economy. So for many consumers, it doesn't really make economic sense to get the manual when the automatic, if available, isn't that much more with respect to the price of the car and gets the same, or perhaps better fuel economy.

So unless you are selling sports cars or something where there is a higher percentage of customers who would expect a manual option, the trend will continue and you'll find fewer truly manual transmissions.

 

[Nick R]

Originally Posted By: Smoky14
Originally Posted By: jmsjags
manuals aren't sold here because, simply put, people don't buy them. everyone talks the talk online but when it comes time to buy they always spring for the slushbox!

I hunted for over 6mo to find my Acura CL with a manual shifter. Amazing all the dealers said "we can't keep a stick on the lot" Now since salesman never lie....there must be some out there somewhere.
Since the dealer makes a grand more on an auto, that could figure in there some place.


Actually that's not quite true. Do they make more? Yes. Do they make a grand more? No. Because you gotta remember, the dealerships buy the cars from the manufacturer. The longer they sit on the lot, the more they cost the dealer. The profit margins for the dealer on cars are relatively thin. For example, sticker price on my focus was just over $20k. Invoice was a little under $18k.

 

[Spyder7]

My biggest gripes, industry wide:

1. Engines that are far more efficient than previous generations, yet still only get the same mileage owing to every new generation carrying more bloat that kills what would otherwise be FE gains.

2. The top end height of bumpers on SUVs and big pickups. They don't need to be as high as they are, as older generations have proven (this is another modern trend). Makes them no safer or more versatile, just increases the likelihood of anything they're in an accident with (pedestrian, bike, car of any size) being more likely to result in serious injuries or fatalities.

3. The disappearance of the manual tranny that is taking place.

4. Owner unfriendly features like the removal of the oil dipstick completely from certain models.

5. Related to (3) and (4), the trend toward increasing automation (much of which is still in the test phase but seems inevitable before it hits production) aimed at isolating the driver from the experience to the point, inevitably, where actually driving the car will not even be an option.

Those are my major beefs, and they're industry wide.

-Spyder

 

[SteveSRT8]

Most of what Spyder is complaining about is due to Government safety requirements. Note: that does NOT constitute abolitionist tendencies! Just a factoid.

But my fav is one he mentions: Bloat! The continual weight gain of cars is negating all the terrific performance we could have.

 

[GMBoy]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Most of what Spyder is complaining about is due to Government safety requirements. Note: that does NOT constitute abolitionist tendencies! Just a factoid.

But my fav is one he mentions: Bloat! The continual weight gain of cars is negating all the terrific performance we could have.



Yes, I agree. The excess bloat used to be blamed soley on gov't regulations. However, now I think a large part of the bloat comes from infotainment options and features that the public now expects in cars, so they mfg's are somewhat forced to include these features or risk losing a sale. Believe me, there are people that will buy one model of car over the other just because it has an iPod jack or maybe blue tooth, etc.

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Most of what Spyder is complaining about is due to Government safety requirements. Note: that does NOT constitute abolitionist tendencies! Just a factoid.

But my fav is one he mentions: Bloat! The continual weight gain of cars is negating all the terrific performance we could have.



Yes, I agree. The excess bloat used to be blamed soley on gov't regulations. However, now I think a large part of the bloat comes from infotainment options and features that the public now expects in cars, so they mfg's are somewhat forced to include these features or risk losing a sale. Believe me, there are people that will buy one model of car over the other just because it has an iPod jack or maybe blue tooth, etc.



That's true. Ask my wife why she bought the Nissan Altima 2.5S. She will tell you that the smartkey technology was the reason. She loves not needing to dig in her purse for a key to open her door or start the car.

Of course, I don't think that adds any weight compared to a car with remote keyless entry as the electronics are already there.

Given that electronics get smaller all the time, I don't think they are adding to the weight of the car.

What has added is the level of standard equipment. Power windows and door locks are standard, so that adds compared to 10 years ago (roughly) when they were still options.

As others have suggested, more air bags adds more weight. Ditto for Nav systems and other infotainment systems available on cars.

How much has going from 13"-15" wheels to 16"-20" wheels on cars added in mass? How about all the faux dual exhaust systems? Don't most FWD cars have a single pipe going down the center before branching off into the faux duals after the rear axle?

I even see this on 4 cylinder cars like my wife's Altima. How much weight could be taken out of the car by having a single exhaust that does the job equally well?

That car could have had 15" wheels like the Camry it replaced instead of 16" steel wheels.

 

[The Critic]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
I suspect the manual transmission issue is a convergence of factors. Some of them include:

1. Distracted Drivers. If you are enjoying your $5 coffee and talking on your cell phone, having to shift is probably not appealing.

2. Separate certification for emissions. Since there is no computer signaling the shift transitions, how does the PCM address the transitions when you suddenly shift. So there is separate programming for such a car. If you don't offer a manual, you don't need to code for such cars.

3. Fewer parts easier to stock for assembly and service. No need to stock both automatic and manual transmissions and all the assorted parts such as the different axles each car takes, no clutches, no clutch mechanisms, one shifter, etc.

4. Folks just don't know how to drive a stick. I wasn't taught in drivers ed, and that was 30 years ago. My kids didn't learn in drivers ed either. I taught my step-son. My step-daughter has said she wants to learn, but it's only a passing fancy. (Or she wants a cute guy to teach her.)

5. The automatics are getting just as good with respect to durability and economy. So for many consumers, it doesn't really make economic sense to get the manual when the automatic, if available, isn't that much more with respect to the price of the car and gets the same, or perhaps better fuel economy.

So unless you are selling sports cars or something where there is a higher percentage of customers who would expect a manual option, the trend will continue and you'll find fewer truly manual transmissions.


You should also add to the list, local traffic issues. If you live in Silicon Valley like I do, or in a densely populated place such as Los Angeles, driving for 1/2 hour (or more) in traffic each day will make a manual transmission very tiring...fast.

 

[javacontour]

Good point. Bad traffic in areas such as there, or the DC beltway make owning a stick miserable. Even our mild traffic in St Louis gets to be a pain driving a stick from time to time.

 

[Spazdog]

Originally Posted By: Spyder7


4. Owner unfriendly features like the removal of the oil dipstick completely from certain models
-Spyder

I fully expect certain manufacturers to eliminate the hood release lever soon

Ve only sell you right to drive ze kar! Zere are no user serviceable parts inside

There'll be a special dealer tool ($$$) that you have to insert into a hidden opening in the grill or something. The salesmen will explain it all away, "It's got free scheduled maintenance and free roadside assistance so you will never need to open the hood anyway..."

 

[Spyder7]

Originally Posted By: GMBoy
Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Most of what Spyder is complaining about is due to Government safety requirements. Note: that does NOT constitute abolitionist tendencies! Just a factoid.

But my fav is one he mentions: Bloat! The continual weight gain of cars is negating all the terrific performance we could have.



Yes, I agree. The excess bloat used to be blamed soley on gov't regulations. However, now I think a large part of the bloat comes from infotainment options and features that the public now expects in cars, so they mfg's are somewhat forced to include these features or risk losing a sale. Believe me, there are people that will buy one model of car over the other just because it has an iPod jack or maybe blue tooth, etc.



There are. When I recently helped someone choose a car, the things that they raved about after: the color of its dash lighting, blue tooth, and iPod jack. Those were all standard in the model having the beyond base line equipment she specified as minimal, but not even things I noticed.

On the other end of the scale, the seller of my car (which has only an auto tranny and A/C as its options) complained that the only thing she didn't like about her new Corolla was the many features she had to take to get A/C and an auto tranny. Those were her two requirements, the rest irked her as unnecessary bloat and complication.

I'll add that when I bought this car, even shopping for 2000-2001 models from Honda and Toyota that I'd narrowed my search to, I went in also with a criteria that it had to be a manual. I had to abandon that when it became clear that my odds of finding it in a car that also satisfied my other criteria (one owner and well taken care of) were about as good as winning the lotto. So I settled for the auto. And I know when it comes time to buy again, whatever the candidates I narrow the search to, I'll likely end up having to go with another auto.

-Spyder