Auto execs are coming clean evs arentworking.

[UncleDave]

Ford has a one year supply of Mach E’s on their lots right now and they lose the Federal tax credit on January 1st. Good luck moving those cars without a $20K incentive this month.

Ford dealers need to put the pipe down and get real.

This stuff will sit forever with this legacy approach to selling.

 

[ZZman]

They did that with like, Chevy Spark, Nissan Leaf, etc. Didn't cost much less than 35k and they didn't get much interest other than from cheap skate who won't spend money.

Elon saw this, and knows, that you need a luxury car (at least in MSRP) to hide an expensive battery.

Leafs and Sparks were basically econoboxes most wouldn't want anyway. Plus the Leaf lacked range.

 

[wemay]

When i was shopping for my Sonata, these were north of $45K. That was this past Feb....

 

[ecotourist]

With cheap electricity and expensive gasoline, I'm getting close to justifying an EV or at least a hybrid as a 2nd vehicle.

We lived in Winnipeg for a few years and remember the winters really well.

I'd suggest you research the cold weather charging aspects of a prospective EV before buying one. Should be less of a problem if you have an even semi-warm garage.

An EV's range will probably suffer in the cold more than most vehicles because it uses electricity for heat as well as propulsion so the winter range will suffer. Our Model 3 uses a heat pump so it's being as efficient as possible though a heat pump doesn't work all that well either in very low temperatures.

All that to say if you buy an EV get one with a lot of range if you plan to use it in the winter. We own a 2021 Tesla Model 3 SR+, which we really like, so obviously I'm not opposed to EVs. In our situation (mild weather, short distances, level 2 charger in our garage, very high fuel prices) it's a terrific car.

 

[UncleDave]

Leafs and Sparks were basically econoboxes most wouldn't want anyway. Plus the Leaf lacked range.

It wasnt so much that they are/were econoboxes, but they arent modern fast charging EV's capable of competitive road trip times with ice vehicles.

You can have less range if you can charge quickly, but short legs and slow charging combined really kill it as an ice replacement.

They are "city cars".

 

[Number_35]

We lived in Winnipeg for a few years and remember the winters really well.

I'd suggest you research the cold weather charging aspects of a prospective EV before buying one. Should be less of a problem if you have an even semi-warm garage.

An EV's range will probably suffer in the cold more than most vehicles because it uses electricity for heat as well as propulsion so the winter range will suffer. Our Model 3 uses a heat pump so it's being as efficient as possible though a heat pump doesn't work all that well either in very low temperatures.

All that to say if you buy an EV get one with a lot of range if you plan to use it in the winter. We own a 2021 Tesla Model 3 SR+, which we really like, so obviously I'm not opposed to EVs. In our situation (mild weather, short distances, level 2 charger in our garage, very high fuel prices) it's a terrific car.

An EV would be fine for us as a 2nd car - even if winter cut the range greatly, we seldom drive more than 50 km in the city in a day.

I would have to think long and hard about keeping an EV in our attached garage. There are lots of horror stories, although I believe the stats so far indicate that ICE cars are much more likely than EVs to burn.

I am intrigued by the concept of an EV with an on-board range- extender (an ICE running a generator). C'mon Mazda - let's see that next-gen MX-30 with the baby rotary engine.

 

[CKN]

Meanwhile......

https://gmauthority.com/blog/2023/11/record-u-s-ev-sales-top-300000-units-in-q3-2023/

https://insideevs.com/news/691469/global-ev-sales-august2023/

 

[alarmguy]

I believe it will easily last over 200,000 miles with proper care unless you live in an environment like Phoenix and keep your car outdoors all the time.

One important note. I own a 2017 Chevy Bolt with 135k miles along with a Tesla and two LEAFs. The Bolt gets more time behind the wheel than all the others combined. It's a nice compact crossover that is more of a workhorse than the others. If you're going this direction, the sweet spot would be a 2017-2020 Bolt with high miles that had its battery replaced less than 40k miles ago. Those are priced at less than half of an EUV if you add the $4000 used car sales tax credit.

Son of a (gun) out of the blue, not looking for a new second car yet pops up a used "Certified 2022 Bolt EV" in my face. Dont know why, but I ask my wife would she like the car over the Mazda she now has, which mostly sits in the driveway. She says sure.
her car in as a trade AND the $4,500 credit Im almost ready to pull the trigger... THEN GOSH DARN IT the car goes up $4,500 in price because I paid my Tax Estimates just two weeks ago ... but wait, that doesnt matter does it? Ill get a refund check, correct?

Hey, full disclosure. Literally this thing just smacked me in the face and was surprised by my wife's reaction. Dont really need a car so I dont want to be held to "talk" and no action, though typing it out, I jsut realized I am wrong, I will get a refund check on taxes paid correct? Yes I am sure is the answer.

Forget what I typed for now, I got enough on my plate right now but sometimes things start out this way... maybe if I wasnt getting ready for the holidays and things to do right now

 

[ecotourist]

I would have to think long and hard about keeping an EV in our attached garage. There are lots of horror stories, although I believe the stats so far indicate that ICE cars are much more likely than EVs to burn.

Yes your EV could catch fire. There have been a few reports (not lots of reports) of EV battery fires. And yes they're hard or nearly impossible to put out if they catch fire.

But let's put this risk in perspective. Life is full of risks. Living in Winnipeg, I suspect you're more likely to freeze in a major blizzard, have your house blown away by a tornado, or carried away by the next "flood of the century" (or the one after that).

 

[macarose]

Son of a (gun) out of the blue, not looking for a new second car yet pops up a used "Certified 2022 Bolt EV" in my face. Dont know why, but I ask my wife would she like the car over the Mazda she now has, which mostly sits in the driveway. She says sure.
her car in as a trade AND the $4,500 credit Im almost ready to pull the trigger... THEN GOSH DARN IT the car goes up $4,500 in price because I paid my Tax Estimates just two weeks ago ... but wait, that doesnt matter does it? Ill get a refund check, correct?

Hey, full disclosure. Literally this thing just smacked me in the face and was surprised by my wife's reaction. Dont really need a car so I dont want to be held to "talk" and no action, though typing it out, I jsut realized I am wrong, I will get a refund check on taxes paid correct? Yes I am sure is the answer.

Forget what I typed for now, I got enough on my plate right now but sometimes things start out this way... maybe if I wasnt getting ready for the holidays and things to do right now

Where are you located?

 

[JeffKeryk]

@alarmguy My understanding is the tax credit reduces your tax liability up to $4500 (or whatever the number is), if you qualify. Prepaid taxes have nothing to do with it.

 

[alarmguy]

Where are you located?

SC/NC coast. But I am already over the idea for now.
I saw a 2022 with 22k miles, GM certified. Then was looking at new ones, the difference in price in min by buying new 2023. Because you get the $7,500 instead of 4,500 plus GM will pay for the charger installation on new. I can go to GM online right now and have it delivered to a dealer near me.
It was a last minute thought, ran across it by accident, then posted in here and I was coming back to delete it but then saw your post and felt the need to reply. If something fell into our lap I would consider it but ... I went online to possibly order some jeans and ended up looking at cars *LOL*

My wife pointed out I did something similar last year and we bought a new house and moved !!! *LOL* ok, dinner time

 

[Number_35]

Yes your EV could catch fire. There have been a few reports (not lots of reports) of EV battery fires. And yes they're hard or nearly impossible to put out if they catch fire.

But let's put this risk in perspective. Life is full of risks. Living in Winnipeg, I suspect you're more likely to freeze in a major blizzard, have your house blown away by a tornado, or carried away by the next "flood of the century" (or the one after that).

My biggest risks here are likely Winnipeg drivers (whether I'm walking, driving, or cycling), and crime. But as was pointed out in another thread here, the most dangerous thing a lot of us do is to climb ladders.

Edit: Since the floodway expansion about 15 years ago, flood risk within the city has been greatly reduced.

 

[Ws6]

Did you take down intake manifold? My Tiguan runs excellent, but if I took manifold down, I can guarantee CBU.

I did not, but as long as mpg was unchanged and all that, I didn't view it as an issue.

 

[edyvw]

I did not, but as long as mpg was unchanged and all that, I didn't view it as an issue.

Same as Tiguan. No change in mpg, all works excellent at 105,000mls. But I know what I would see if I took down manifold.

 

[Ws6]

Same as Tiguan. No change in mpg, all works excellent at 105,000mls. But I know what I would see if I took down manifold.

Then why does it matter? It runs the same as new, so...?

 

[edyvw]

Then why does it matter? It runs the same as new, so...?

I am just saying that they have CBU issues too. Not ANY better than VW etc.

 

[alarmguy]

@alarmguy My understanding is the tax credit reduces your tax liability up to $4500 (or whatever the number is), if you qualify. Prepaid taxes have nothing to do with it.

For new cars;
Yes, I think we are talking about the same thing in different ways. This only makes sense. If your tax liability is at least 7,500 then you will get a refund for the $7,500 even if already paid those taxes in 2023.
If your tax liability was only $5,500 and it was already paid then you would only get $5,500 refund and miss out on the other $2000

If your tax liability was at least $7,500 and still owed it, then you would owe $7,500 less on your 2024 taxes.
If your tax liability was only $5,500 and you didn't pay it, then you would owe $0 on your 2023 return but you would miss out on the other $2000 because you didn't owe enough income tax

(this is not accounting advice, income levels come into play as well I think, do you due diligence, this is conversation only)

For used cars the tax credit is $4,500

 

[Sedin26]

It wasnt so much that they are/were econoboxes, but they arent modern fast charging EV's capable of competitive road trip times with ice vehicles.

You can have less range if you can charge quickly, but short legs and slow charging combined really kill it as an ice replacement.

They are "city cars".

Definitely good city cars. Leafs used to dominate in my area, though there are more Teslas now. Commutes here aren’t long and it never gets too hot or cold. I still see a lot of the earlier Leaf’s on the road here…

 

[proveitwithdata]

Confirmed through various channels that lease to buy will remain the same as long as the commercial purchasing the vehicle, which for a lease is the captive finance arm of the automaker, is willing to pass on the $7500 onto the leasee.

The sourcing requirements that go in effect on 1/24 whole another ball game. Cash purchasers and finance purchases will be the ones that are going go be hit the hardest. Ford for example has said get as much inventory out before the new year.