Auto execs are coming clean evs arentworking.

[Brons2]

**It really is price that is the problem**.

For mass adoption, I agree, and I think I'm among the more strident EV supporters.

 

[BLND1]

I've never heard of a lithium spill or an electricity pipe leak. Nor have I heard of a coal train destroying the environment. Nor do I have to get my coal to power my EV from across the ocean. It's all kindof nice.

The citizens of Paradise, CA would like a word.

Ignorance at its finest.

 

[Torrid]

The citizens of Paradise, CA would like a word.

Ignorance at its finest.

You're going to have to fill me in on what part of what he said has to do with Paradise, CA.

 

[Brons2]

The vast majority of households find it difficult to justify an EV as part of their 2 car rotation. One car families even more so. The flexibility isn’t there.

You pulled this statement straight out of your backside.

 

[BLND1]

You're going to have to fill me in on what part of what he said has to do with Paradise, CA.

He’s never heard of an “electricity pipeline”leaking.

PG&E leaked their electricity “pipeline” all over the residents of Paradise.

 

[97prizm]

Tesla makes a viable product, and while not as stone reliable as my F150's are, Tesla's are more reliable than many cars of just a few years back. And likely much more reliable than my Jaguar.

**It really is price that is the problem**. The Model S vs. Impala comparison is a valid one. Both full sized cars and have similar interior dimensions and overall missions. One is 2.5x the cost of the other.

It is not lost on me that the Tesla has performance advantages. Not helpful if the motorist does not care, and not helpful to me on my epic long trips. I'd even say the rental Impala's are more comfortable on long trips.

In the end, I purchased a convertible performance car. I wish it performed like a Plaid. I can go a solid 450 miles on a tank, at warp speed. And, that's what a GT car is all about. Getting there fast. Not accelerating fast, and going slow to maximize range.

I wouldn't say reliable. Many are finding issues but the Tesla cultists seem to gloss over it. Many Tesla owners have had to have their batteries replaced. Tesla used to have 96% of owners would purchase again. Now it's 67%

 

[97prizm]

To be clear, I'm not against the concept of EVs; in some applications they make good sense.

What I see is that Tesla is very good at the game and committed to the cause; good for them. But, they don't have to split their resources between ICE and EV; they can concentrate 100% on EVS.

But the more traditional automakers are generally struggling to make EVs work in a fiscal sense, relative to the other larger markets they serve. Sure, as they mature their products, they can improve their brand. But that won't coax the mainstream folks into buying them anytime soon.

While I do agree that many of the current articles are regurgitating the storyline, it's not without merit that the basis of their story is the automakers backing away from EVs, and the associated sub-market applications. Not unlike Ford deciding to shelve the idea of having a US based battery plant in MI; they're gonna stick with their China sourced stuff rather than make the multi-million dollar investment into a plant which is unlikely to make the expected ROI.

What the majors are looking at is the RATE at which EV sales are running. The massive run on EVs is starting to wane. Sales will still increase for some regional sales areas, but that doesn't make it a worthwhile investment for the big makers as of now. The people who are willing to buy them will always buy them, but they don't represent the majority market investment for the foreseeable future. And that's why the main automakers are backing away from serious investments in the current state.

That's the way I see it. And the new stories are echoing this concept; that EVs don't have the mass market potential past the already-proven devotees.

I have a SIL who got a Mach-E, and she's already stated that she's considering going back to ICE or hybrid soon. It's not panned out to what the hype was all about for her application. To be fair, I don't think she was a good EV candidate in the first place, it's hard to convince her of anything against her own opinion. At least she gave it a try, but realised it's not for her. I told her to get a hybrid (Toyota; I think they have the best program in that regard). She didn't listen, and now she's thinking I may have been right all along, though I doubt she'd admit that to me outwardly.

Tesla has also been shown to create alot of waste at their facilities, more than other manufacturers. Face it Musk is a hypocrite, he doesn't give a rats rear end about "sustainability " or the environment.

 

[BLND1]

You pulled this statement straight out of your backside.

I’m sure you’ll follow be following your ad hominem attack with a plethora of consumer purchase survey data to support YOUR claim.

EV’s are and will continue to remain a luxury item. Adoption rates are low and are still pegged heavily to wealthy urban/suburban households. Low and increasingly more middle income (read: an ever increasingly majority of the population) households can’t consider an EV because the limited infrastructure support doesn’t provide them with the flexibility needed in a second vehicle

Or

They simply can’t afford new vehicle purchases to begin with. Let alone a used EV with questionable battery performance and a gloomy future outlook.

 

[Brons2]

I’m sure you’ll follow be following your ad hominem attack with a plethora of consumer purchase survey data to support YOUR claim.

EV’s are and will continue to remain a luxury item. Adoption rates are low and are still pegged heavily to wealthy urban/suburban households. Low and increasingly more middle income (read: an ever increasingly majority of the population) households can’t consider an EV because the limited infrastructure support doesn’t provide them with the flexibility needed in a second vehicle

Or

They simply can’t afford new vehicle purchases to begin with. Let alone a used EV with questionable battery performance and a gloomy future outlook.

I didn't claim anything. I just said that you pulled your claim straight out of your backside, which could ostensibly be interpreted as "it's purely your opinion". Which is fine, except for the fact you presented it as fact. Opinions are like rear orifices, everyone's got one.

 

[mrbreezeet1]

They'll pry my cold dead body out of my ICE motor before I buy any electric car!
What is this, are we living in a "The Jetsons" world?
{mostly supposed to be funny now guys}

 

[BLND1]

I didn't claim anything. I just said that you pulled your claim straight out of your backside, which could ostensibly be interpreted as "it's purely your opinion". Which is fine, except for the fact you presented it as fact. Opinions are like rear orifices, everyone's got one.

You won’t be making any other contributions to the discussion then? I’ll go ahead and ignore you if so.

 

[Torrid]

I’m sure you’ll follow be following your ad hominem attack with a plethora of consumer purchase survey data to support YOUR claim.

EV’s are and will continue to remain a luxury item. Adoption rates are low and are still pegged heavily to wealthy urban/suburban households. Low and increasingly more middle income (read: an ever increasingly majority of the population) households can’t consider an EV because the limited infrastructure support doesn’t provide them with the flexibility needed in a second vehicle

Or

They simply can’t afford new vehicle purchases to begin with. Let alone a used EV with questionable battery performance and a gloomy future outlook.

You won’t be making any other contributions to the discussion then? I’ll go ahead and ignore you if so.

What were you doing? Spouting opinion. You’re right though. My sub $50k EV cost so much more than the other sub $50k vehicle options I had. Not all battery cars are $70k+ vehicles but most that seem to think that are driving $70k trucks. Sit down.

 

[BLND1]

What were you doing? Spouting opinion. You’re right though. My sub $50k EV cost so much more than the other sub $50k vehicle options I had. Not all battery cars are $70k+ vehicles but most that seem to think that are driving $70k trucks. Sit down.

It’s isn’t about cost per se. It’s about flexibility and value to the average American finding it difficult to justify any purchase, let alone an EV with limited utility. If it weren’t then we’d see adoption rates much higher and EV lots empty, not teaming with unsold vehicles.

 

[JeffKeryk]

It’s isn’t about cost per se. It’s about flexibility and value to the average American finding it difficult to justify any purchase, let alone an EV with limited utility. If it weren’t then we’d see adoption rates much higher and EV lots empty, not teaming with unsold vehicles.

The average American drives 35 to 37 miles per day. And remember that Californians push the average up and we buy a lotta EVs. If you can charge at home or work, an EV hardly has limited utility. An EV can offer serious value. That's why the Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world this year.

 

[BLND1]

The average American drives 35 to 37 miles per day. And remember that Californians push the average up and we buy a lotta EVs. If you can charge at home or work, an EV hardly has limited utility. An EV can offer serious value. That's why the Model Y is the best selling vehicle in the world this year.

EV’s offer value for a narrow segment of society. I’ll let you guess which segment that is (hint: there’s a reason california sells EV’s). If you commute to work from your LA or Bay Area suburb and vacation in Tahoe every year for a couple weeks all the more power to you.

If you can only afford one or two vehicles it becomes much more difficult to justify an EV when you need your vehicles to be far more flexible. Most can’t afford a third vehicle to begin with and for others it’s cheaper to just use two flexible ICE vehicles rather than add a third EV. If you are primarily urban or can afford 7 cars, then of course, adding an EV is an easy decision.

When you consider that most people are getting priced out of the new vehicle market it makes ICE vehicles even more appealing, as the Used EV market looks like a minefield.

Is 35/37 the average or median? Just out of curiosity.

 

[JeffKeryk]

EV’s offer value for a narrow segment of society. I’ll let you guess which segment that is (hint: there’s a reason california sells EV’s). If you commute to work from your LA or Bay Area suburb and vacation in Tahoe every year for a couple weeks all the more power to you.

If you can only afford one or two vehicles it becomes much more difficult to justify an EV when you need your vehicles to be far more flexible. Most can’t afford a third vehicle to begin with and for others it’s cheaper to just use two flexible ICE vehicles rather than add a third EV. If you are primarily urban or can afford 7 cars, then of course, adding an EV is an easy decision.

When you consider that most people are getting priced out of the new vehicle market it makes ICE vehicles even more appealing, as the Used EV market looks like a minefield.

Is 35/37 the average or median? Just out of curiosity.

Average. FYI, I have said many times EVs are not for everyone. It depends on your use case. Neither are Bro-Dozers, Vettes, MBZ, Caddys, Porsches, etc.

Respectfully, until you own an EV it is hard to understand their value. After 5 years, my opinions have changed dramatically. I believed Teslas were cars for rich CA granola heads; I was wrong. Owners love 'em. There's a reason for it.

 

[demarpaint]

Average. FYI, I have said many times EVs are not for everyone. It depends on your use case. Neither are Bro-Dozers, Vettes, MBZ, Caddys, Porsches, etc.

Respectfully, until you own an EV it is hard to understand their value. After 5 years, my opinions have changed dramatically. I believed Teslas were cars for rich CA granola heads; I was wrong. SOME Owners love 'em. There's a reason for it.

I fixed it for you. My Dr. is not a fan and coincidentally I met someone last night at a seminar that sold his and went back to ICE. I guess it depends.

 

[macarose]

EVs are set to dominate the market in most of Western Europe and certain Asian markets. A lot of smaller countries throughout the globe are also buying them the droves.

The USA is buying tons of them as well... so long as they are a Tesla.

The legacy Big 3's failure with EVs has nothing to do with demand. They brought in overpriced vehicles ($60k Blazers, $100k Lightnings, the Hummer EV) and the consumer said no. In the meantime the Tesla Model X and Y remain best sellers even with auto finance rates nearly doubling over the past two years.

There's a reason why Tesla's market value is now nearly eight times more than GM and Ford. Tesla now has virtually no competition in North America and the X and Y are the two largest revenue generators in the world right now.

 

[Redhawk454]

In a free enterprise/capitalist society demand would dictate what the market does, not government.

 

[demarpaint]

In a free enterprise/capitalist society demand would dictate what the market does, not government.

+1