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So, this oil change interval got away from me a bit. I think i need to shorten the interval.
Audi A4-2004 Mobil 1 0W40 12000 miles
- Thread starter Winston
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So, this oil change interval got away from me a bit. I think i need to shorten the interval.
Yeah maybe shorten the interval, but maybe not to change the brand of oil. Your previous run was only 10k and the wear numbers were much worse. Was that run with M1 0w40?
Yup it was all M1 0W40. Air filter is a Wix paper.
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Interesting that the 10,000 mile run had a TBN of 1.6 and iron was 51. This 12,600 mile run had a TBN of 3.4 and iron of 31. Silicon was lower in the 10k run and iron/Cu numbers were higher.
Was the type of driving different this run vs. last? Any other changes? Anyone know if there was a formula change recently on this oil?
Was the type of driving different this run vs. last? Any other changes? Anyone know if there was a formula change recently on this oil?
I would change air filter back to OEM.
Wix = oem
Well, this is my wifes's car. She got a job farther away from home, so that is probably why this longer interval showed a better report than the previous interval. Much more highway driving this time. 10min commute vs 30min commute.
Ah very interesting Winston. I noticed a similar change when I changed my driving habits in the VW 2.0 FSI engine (shown below). If one doesn't change the oil type, you can almost predict what the numbers will be (if you have trending UOAs) based on the driving style.
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Good illustration of effect of lots of city driving. Compare this 5000 mile 50% hwy/50% city run:
cst 13.02
TBN 3.9
TAN 4.9
to the last run of 4000 miles which was 90% city in the winter:
cst 12.23
TBN 4.3
TAN 5.7
If this were my car and I wanted to use the same oil, I would reduce the OCI quite a bit. But I would rather switch to a more robust oil though and see how it did at the same 10k interval. The ester-based oils appear to be in a different class than the VW 502 PAO oils for the 2.0 FSI. Not same engine of course. M1 0w40 sheared out of grade 96% of the time for the 24 UOAs we have for the 2.0FSI. The ester based oils sheared out of grade almost never. Wear metals were lower and flashpoints higher (but blackstone #s so hard to say much there) as well.
Also, your UOA is no longer showing above, maybe a temporary glitch with imageshack?
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Good illustration of effect of lots of city driving. Compare this 5000 mile 50% hwy/50% city run:
cst 13.02
TBN 3.9
TAN 4.9
to the last run of 4000 miles which was 90% city in the winter:
cst 12.23
TBN 4.3
TAN 5.7
If this were my car and I wanted to use the same oil, I would reduce the OCI quite a bit. But I would rather switch to a more robust oil though and see how it did at the same 10k interval. The ester-based oils appear to be in a different class than the VW 502 PAO oils for the 2.0 FSI. Not same engine of course. M1 0w40 sheared out of grade 96% of the time for the 24 UOAs we have for the 2.0FSI. The ester based oils sheared out of grade almost never. Wear metals were lower and flashpoints higher (but blackstone #s so hard to say much there) as well.
Also, your UOA is no longer showing above, maybe a temporary glitch with imageshack?
I have GC in it now. I can still see the UOA?
Originally Posted By: Winston
I can still see the UOA?
It's back now. Must have been a temporary glitch on either imageshack or BITOG.
Also, re-reading my post above, I just wanted to clarify that I'm not implying M1 0w40 sheared in this UOA, I was talking about the 2.0 FSI results. Just didn't want anyone to take those comments the wrong way. Thanks
I can still see the UOA?
It's back now. Must have been a temporary glitch on either imageshack or BITOG.
Also, re-reading my post above, I just wanted to clarify that I'm not implying M1 0w40 sheared in this UOA, I was talking about the 2.0 FSI results. Just didn't want anyone to take those comments the wrong way. Thanks
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Ah very interesting Winston. I noticed a similar change when I changed my driving habits in the VW 2.0 FSI engine (shown below). If one doesn't change the oil type, you can almost predict what the numbers will be (if you have trending UOAs) based on the driving style.
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Good illustration of effect of lots of city driving. Compare this 5000 mile 50% hwy/50% city run:
cst 13.02
TBN 3.9
TAN 4.9
to the last run of 4000 miles which was 90% city in the winter:
cst 12.23
TBN 4.3
TAN 5.7
If this were my car and I wanted to use the same oil, I would reduce the OCI quite a bit. But I would rather switch to a more robust oil though and see how it did at the same 10k interval. The ester-based oils appear to be in a different class than the VW 502 PAO oils for the 2.0 FSI. Not same engine of course. M1 0w40 sheared out of grade 96% of the time for the 24 UOAs we have for the 2.0FSI. The ester based oils sheared out of grade almost never. Wear metals were lower and flashpoints higher (but blackstone #s so hard to say much there) as well.
Also, your UOA is no longer showing above, maybe a temporary glitch with imageshack?
saaber, when you say ester based oils are you referring to Redline? They don't use any VII's.
Ah very interesting Winston. I noticed a similar change when I changed my driving habits in the VW 2.0 FSI engine (shown below). If one doesn't change the oil type, you can almost predict what the numbers will be (if you have trending UOAs) based on the driving style.
Originally Posted By: saaber1
Good illustration of effect of lots of city driving. Compare this 5000 mile 50% hwy/50% city run:
cst 13.02
TBN 3.9
TAN 4.9
to the last run of 4000 miles which was 90% city in the winter:
cst 12.23
TBN 4.3
TAN 5.7
If this were my car and I wanted to use the same oil, I would reduce the OCI quite a bit. But I would rather switch to a more robust oil though and see how it did at the same 10k interval. The ester-based oils appear to be in a different class than the VW 502 PAO oils for the 2.0 FSI. Not same engine of course. M1 0w40 sheared out of grade 96% of the time for the 24 UOAs we have for the 2.0FSI. The ester based oils sheared out of grade almost never. Wear metals were lower and flashpoints higher (but blackstone #s so hard to say much there) as well.
Also, your UOA is no longer showing above, maybe a temporary glitch with imageshack?
saaber, when you say ester based oils are you referring to Redline? They don't use any VII's.
Originally Posted By: buster
saaber, when you say ester based oils are you referring to Redline? They don't use any VII's.
Yes mostly Redline and some Renewable Lubes Biosyn. I don't think there are any Motul 300V or X-lite UOAs yet as I recall. Also no silkolene which are the only commonly available ester-based oils I know of. I am using the term "ester-based" to mean composed largely of ester base stocks.
I originally thought that the ester base oils themselves were the reason they are holding up better in this demanding application, but the more I see and talk to the experts, it is not the base oils directly, but more the fact that the base oils allow the use of little or no viscosity modifiers.
I wish there was some test out there where we could determine exactly how much (and ideally of what quality) VII are used in each oil. Then we could correlate that to the results seen in UOAs.
But we are fortunate to have UOAs such as Rhouse181's, where he has excellent trending. He used a few good Motul oils (PAO-based) and then switched to ester-based (redline) and the oil held up much better.
The ester-based oils seem to be in a different class in the demanding 2.0 FSI engine. But of course they cost more also. Someone out there was going to run Motul X-lite (it is very expensive) in the 2.0 FSI and do a UOA but we haven't seen the UOA yet.
As a side note, I am still trying to figure out why we have that one outstanding run on Brad Penn 10w30 (not ester based). Wild speculation, but would it be that lack of VIIs are the reason? Does anyone know how much VII is used in that formula? I briefly tried Brad Penn 10w40 but dumped it after 200 miles because it completely changed the character of my car (turbo spool-up was atrocious). Maybe someday I will try the Brad Penn 10w30.
saaber, when you say ester based oils are you referring to Redline? They don't use any VII's.
Yes mostly Redline and some Renewable Lubes Biosyn. I don't think there are any Motul 300V or X-lite UOAs yet as I recall. Also no silkolene which are the only commonly available ester-based oils I know of. I am using the term "ester-based" to mean composed largely of ester base stocks.
I originally thought that the ester base oils themselves were the reason they are holding up better in this demanding application, but the more I see and talk to the experts, it is not the base oils directly, but more the fact that the base oils allow the use of little or no viscosity modifiers.
I wish there was some test out there where we could determine exactly how much (and ideally of what quality) VII are used in each oil. Then we could correlate that to the results seen in UOAs.
But we are fortunate to have UOAs such as Rhouse181's, where he has excellent trending. He used a few good Motul oils (PAO-based) and then switched to ester-based (redline) and the oil held up much better.
The ester-based oils seem to be in a different class in the demanding 2.0 FSI engine. But of course they cost more also. Someone out there was going to run Motul X-lite (it is very expensive) in the 2.0 FSI and do a UOA but we haven't seen the UOA yet.
As a side note, I am still trying to figure out why we have that one outstanding run on Brad Penn 10w30 (not ester based). Wild speculation, but would it be that lack of VIIs are the reason? Does anyone know how much VII is used in that formula? I briefly tried Brad Penn 10w40 but dumped it after 200 miles because it completely changed the character of my car (turbo spool-up was atrocious). Maybe someday I will try the Brad Penn 10w30.
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