Amsoil OE 5w-30 - 2023 Kia Telluride

[kschachn]

If all the oil companies were more transparent they'd just put on their bottles 50% Group III / 50% Group II etc. (as an example) or have it regulated to have some meaning behind these wild claims. 100% synthetic again doesn't mean much & Amsoil says basically the same thing in their explanation to sell to the masses.

Neither one of which means synthetic either. You could have a Group II synthetic if you wish. Or a Group I synthetic. Before GTL is hydrocracked you’re probably at this stage.

Synthetic means, and has always meant, synthesis.

 

[fantastic]

Neither one of which means synthetic either. You could have a Group II synthetic if you wish. Or a Group I synthetic. Before GTL is hydrocracked you’re probably at this stage.

Synthetic means, and has always meant, synthesis.

Right, But then the advertisements never end in their terms you have "Synthetic Technology, Synthetic, Full Synthetic, Advanced Full Synthetic, 100% Full Synthetic". What does those marketing terms mean? "Synthesis"? Synthesis doesn't tell us much about ratios which is what a lot of folks are going to want. They're going to want to know how much more of the good stuff is in the bottle. Tell us how much of this "Synthesis" comes in each one of those marketing claims I mentioned. Which brings me back to my point. It doesn't mean squat without some regulation.

 

[Pablo]

If all the oil companies were more transparent they'd just put on their bottles 50% Group III / 50% Group II etc. (as an example) or have it regulated to have some meaning behind these wild claims.

.....they can get better oil for less money.

No. Then it would be the same. "Look I got 50.0000000001 Group whatever - see guys, my oil is "better"

You cannot possibly show us with hard proof that oil is "better". You are doing exactly the same as the oil companies.

 

[fantastic]

No. Then it would be the same. "Look I got 50.0000000001 Group whatever - see guys, my oil is "better"

You cannot possibly show us with hard proof that oil is "better". You are doing exactly the same as the oil companies.

My "Proof" is that Amsoil says that OE is for OE mile drain intervals not 20,000 miles. Which presumably most OEM's are going to want you to change your oil sooner than 20k. And my biggest "Proof" is that it's better in terms of cost. The 20k oil is cheaper & is positioned to run further than OE. This is what the Amsoil & Mobil marketing tells me is it not true & is that not proof? Am I being duped by both companies? You see where all of this "Marketing" is crazy w/o regulation to actually be comparable to other oils on the market? And as you've said... It all starts with the oil companies. They bear some responsibility for consumers not knowing what they're actually buying.

 

[kschachn]

Right, But then the advertisements never end in their terms you have "Synthetic Technology, Synthetic, Full Synthetic, Advanced Full Synthetic, 100% Full Synthetic". What does those marketing terms mean? "Synthesis"? Synthesis doesn't tell us much about ratios which is what a lot of folks are going to want. They're going to want to know how much more of the good stuff is in the bottle. Tell us how much of this "Synthesis" comes in each one of those marketing claims I mentioned. Which brings me back to my point. It doesn't mean squat without some regulation.

But then again it doesn't have to mean squat. Performance is what matters, and it's why Group I, II and III are not based on method of manufacture but rather performance. Like I noted you can have a poorly performing synthetic base stock all day long.

Brings back, again, specifications, licenses and approvals. Or if you wish, reputation of the boutique blender. This way you are focusing on performance not some increasingly meaningless moniker. Personally I think the German regulation (or whatever it is) will eventually come back to bite them in the end as technology improves. If a regulation over technology isn't outdated the day it is implemented then it will likely become so in short order.

 

[fantastic]

But then again it doesn't have to mean squat. Performance is what matters, and it's why Group I, II and III are not based on method of manufacture but rather performance. Like I noted you can have a poorly performing synthetic base stock all day long.

Brings back, again, specifications, licenses and approvals. Or if you wish, reputation of the boutique blender. This way you are focusing on performance not some increasingly meaningless moniker. Personally I think the German regulation (or whatever it is) will eventually come back to bite them in the end as technology improves. If a regulation over technology isn't outdated the day it is implemented then it will likely become so in short order.

But the oil companies tell me that Synthetic is "Better" than conventional oil so is that no longer the case? As long as Conventional meets spec, approvals, licenses then it's just as good as Synthetics? I thought I'd recently read where Amsoil themselves said PAO was better then Group III etc.

https://blog.amsoil.com/are-all-synthetic-oil-groups-the-same-group-iii-vs-iv-vs-v/

Anyways, w/o getting too far off topic my biggest complaint here is when I hear about an Amsoil rep saying what they said here to the OP about having "More of Synthetic, than other oil, b/c it says 100%". But this nonsense bears some responsibility at the top as well via marketing.

 

[kschachn]

But the oil companies tell me that Synthetic is "Better" than conventional oil so is that no longer the case? As long as Conventional meets spec, approvals, licenses then it's just as good as Synthetics?

Okay. You’re really stuck on this.

I’ll just say though that if you wish to focus on method of manufacture rather than performance, the misconceptions about “synthetic” are also applicable to “conventional”.

 

[Pablo]

My "Proof" is that Amsoil says that OE is for OE mile drain intervals not 20,000 miles. Which presumably most OEM's are going to want you to change your oil sooner than 20k. And my biggest "Proof" is that it's better in terms of cost. The 20k oil is cheaper & is positioned to run further than OE. This is what the Amsoil & Mobil marketing tells me is it not true & is that not proof? Am I being duped by both companies? You see where all of this "Marketing" is crazy w/o regulation to actually be comparable to other oils on the market? And as you've said... It all starts with the oil companies. They bear some responsibility for consumers not knowing what they're actually buying.

As I thought. None of us has any proof (I am not immune)

You cannot say one oil is "better" in this application than another. You can't.

Yes you can say it has a lower price. Even in Canadian dollars. I think, but have not checked the Canada WM price.

 

[fantastic]

Okay. You’re really stuck on this.

I’ll just say though that if you wish to focus on method of manufacture rather than performance, the misconceptions about “synthetic” are also applicable to “conventional”.

Oil marketing should be better established & regulated to be comparable to other oils.

As I thought. None of us has any proof (I am not immune)

You cannot say one oil is "better" in this application than another. You can't.

Yes you can say it has a lower price. Even in Canadian dollars. I think, but have not checked the Canada WM price.

I explained what I meant by "Better". These are the facts I see & until I see otherwise they'll remain.

• Amsoil OE = OEM Drain Intervals VS Mobil 20k = 20,000 Mile intervals
• Amsoil OE = More expensive VS Mobil 20k = Less Expensive

Being able to go longer distance for less money is "better" in this context.

 

[OVERKILL]

Anyway, one of the big takeaways for me is that Dan has explained that, concerning synthetic engine oils, most brands are "full" synthetic, whereas Amsoil engine oils are "100%" synthetic. The difference being that "full" synthetic oil uses synthetic only for the base oil; the additive carrier oil is likely to not be synthetic for economy sake. Amsoil engine oils are the same type of synthetic for both the base and carrier oils. The term "full synthetic" would obviously lead most people to believe that it means 100% synthetic, but, the terminology is allowed to be used for these "not completely synthetic oils".

No, you are being sold a bill of good by this guy.

The carrier oil is there to provide solubility, because Group III/III+ and IV bases essentially have none. The more severe the hydotreating/cracking process, the less polarity and solubility remain. PAO is the worst for solubility, so if SS was PAO with a PAO carrier, the additive package would not stay in suspension. So, the additive package is combined with a higher solubility base to keep it in suspension. This can be a Group I/II base, or an ester, or AN. It has absolutely nothing to do with economy.

Also, when it comes to Group III oils, there can be various levels of Hydrocraking in its production, leading to various levels of the resultant performance of the end product. Amsoil Group III oils (Not Signature Series),

Signature series contains Group III as well, where it makes sense. AMSOIL uses a blend of bases.

are all made using severe hydrocracking, resulting in top performance for the group III category. Other brands may use only hydrotreated (a less processed oil) oils, and even then, only in the base oil - not the additive carrier oil - and can still legally say they are "full synthetic". Guess this may explain why some "full synthetic" oils have such an attractive price.

Both terms mean the same thing. Shell's GTL bases are typically referred to as "severely hydrotreated", and they are Group III+.

Here's an example AMSOIL SDS, which shows 25-50% PAO, 10-17% Group III:

See the 64742-54-7 CAS #? That's Group III, which you also see in some of the Mobil 1 SDS sheets:

The Distillates, Heavy, 848301-69-9, is GTL, which is Group III+.

After learning this and using the product for the past several years, doing some UOA's and even some VOA's, I've come to be satisfied that Amsoil is a consistent good quality product. Sure, I could save a few dollars in the short term on some cheaper brands, but having my engines, that are worth thousands of dollars to replace, properly lubricated is peace of mind to me.

Hope this is helpful to some out there.....thoughts?

Yes, AMSOIL is a consistent, good quality product, but you've also been misled.

 

[kschachn]

Oil marketing should be better established & regulated to be comparable to other oils.

I guess I'm pretty happy with it. I go and buy an oil with VW 504 00 approval for my Tiguan and one with Mercedes-Benz 229.5 approval for my old Sienna, and I know what I'm getting. Superior oxidation resistance and proven wear performance, along with all the other things those approvals demonstrate. Works for me. I really couldn't care less how they get there since those things can change in the formulation. I can make comparisons all day long just by reading the back of the container and comparing which oils meet which approvals and which ones do not.

 

[Pablo]

Oil marketing should be better established & regulated to be comparable to other oils.

I explained what I meant by "Better". These are the facts I see & until I see otherwise they'll remain.

• Amsoil OE = OEM Drain Intervals VS Mobil 20k = 20,000 Mile intervals
• Amsoil OE = More expensive VS Mobil 20k = Less Expensive

Being able to go longer distance for less money is "better" in this context.

Still. Just marketing WORDS. No way is that objective evidence the oil is better.

 

[fantastic]

Still. Just marketing WORDS. No way is that objective evidence the oil is better.

You can look up the price difference at WM & on your end. Perhaps you can get it cheaper but Amsoil's Preferred pricing is higher than the Mobil from what I see.

 

[fantastic]

I guess I'm pretty happy with it. I go and buy an oil with VW 504 00 approval for my Tiguan and one with Mercedes-Benz 229.5 approval for my old Sienna, and I know what I'm getting. Superior oxidation resistance and proven wear performance, along with all the other things those approvals demonstrate. Works for me. I really couldn't care less how they get there since those things can change in the formulation. I can make comparisons all day long just by reading the back of the container and comparing which oils meet which approvals and which ones do not.

No one is disputing the importance of approvals & licenses. Those do help to level the playing field.

 

[Nesterenko]

I just looked up the pricing as I was curious what OE was going for & "Preferred Pricing" is $7.3475 a quart Plus+ whatever your shipping cost would be. There are similar or even better options at that price point. While that price is not terrible it's not that great either considering we can now buy a 20,000 mile oil for $5.60 a quart or so right off the shelf of WM.

A 20k mile oil won't give better results on a 6k km oci, that's what the OP's interval is. Every time Amsoil pops up here be it OE or SS, the same old comments surface.

 

[fantastic]

A 20k mile oil won't give better results on a 6k km oci, that's what the OP's interval is. Every time Amsoil pops up here be it OE or SS, the same old comments surface.

Mobil 20k is not cheaper than Amsoil OE? Mobil being cheaper than Amsoil would make even MORE sense if only going 6k per OCI. It never fails that Amsoil fans would never admit that Mobil 20k would work just as well for less money as Amsoil OE. It's the same old tune from these folks.

 

[Pablo]

Mobil 20k is not cheaper than Amsoil OE? It never fails that Amsoil fans would never admit that Mobil 20k, that you can walk into WM & buy, would work just as well for less money. It's the same old tune from these folks.

You said it's better.

You never actually proved it. A lot of us are still waiting for your proof.

 

[fantastic]

You said it's better.

You never actually proved it. A lot of us are still waiting for your proof.

You conveniently left off the rest of the context of what I said to push your own narrative! I clearly was talking about price comparison!

Fantastic: I just looked up the pricing as I was curious what OE was going for & "Preferred Pricing" is $7.3475 a quart Plus+ whatever your shipping cost would be. There are similar or even better options at that price point. While that price is not terrible it's not that great either considering we can now buy a 20,000 mile oil for $5.60 a quart or so right off the shelf of WM.

I explained what I meant by "Better" but you're not able to comprehend it. You're definition of "Better" is different from my "Better". Cost is my main concern. You're simply stating it in a way that I'm not intending to so quit twisting it to mean what YOU mean.

COST!!!!!!!!!! MOBIL IS CHEAPER!!! That makes it "Better" in my view. "Better" in the terms of Mobil says can be run 20k while Amsoil says OE change intervals. That is what is "Better" in my view. Mobil backed it up with testing. I'd pick Mobil 20k for less money any day vs Amsoil OE for more money that says OEM drain intervals only. You should know that Amsoil is positioning OE for OE drain intervals not 20,000 Miles like Mobil. These are facts anyone with a search engine can look up.

I'll regurgitate what you're trying to spin off on me for no other reason but to discredit me. Show us proof Amsoil OE is better than Mobil 20k...

You're simply wanting to argue with me about what YOU think I mean by "Better" even after my explanation. NEVER have I said Amsoil OE has Worse PERFORMANCE as Mobil 20k. Following yet?

MOBIL 20K is cheaper than Amsoil OE!!! I know you're trying to discredit that...

Does it burn you so bad that us consumers can get a great oil easily off the shelf for less money & have just as good of performance as Amsoil OE? There is NO SURPISE on your Stance here against me for obvious reasons.

4 Quarts of Amsoil OE 5w-30 is $39.59 Retail Price & $29.39 "Preferred Price" (which I'll assume requires some sort of money buy in) + Shipping & Handling. Sorry, couldn't find your affiliate link.
https://www.amsoil.com/p/oe-5w-30-synthetic-motor-oil-oef/?code=OEF1G-EA

"Specifically formulated for the longer drain intervals recommended by original equipment (OE) manufacturers."

5 Quarts of Mobil 20,000 Mile 5w-30 is $27.97. You can get $10 off via Rebate probably two times a year on this oil.
https://www.walmart.com/ip/Mobil-1-...0-5-qt/17128876?athbdg=L1200&adsRedirect=true

"The Mobil 1 Extended Performance limited warranty is valid for 20,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer."

 

[Pablo]

You conveniently left off the rest of the context of what I said to push your own narrative! I clearly was talking about price comparison!

No you actually weren't talking only about price at first. You changed the narrative. I read that. I already conceded the USA price and also stated - we don't know the Canada price on M1. Didn't you read what I wrote?

But here is what you wrote. "....can get better oil for less money."

I am pretty sure that has a distinct meaning because you didn't write equivalent or similar or about the same or probably or any qualifier at all. You wrote "better oil". Even if you wrote "perhaps similar performance for less money" That would have been fine.

I don't like to argue. I hate it in fact. I hate stress and strife. It quickly gets pointless. But statements like that cannot stand. I think this is how BITOG used to be. There was no best oil. There can be better oils for applications, but if that statement is made there needs to be qualifiers included.

Peace and out. Have a good day. I hope we can both can bring this down to a level where we stop talking about it. Thanks.

 

[Nesterenko]

Mobil 20k is not cheaper than Amsoil OE? Mobil being cheaper than Amsoil would make even MORE sense if only going 6k per OCI. It never fails that Amsoil fans would never admit that Mobil 20k would work just as well for less money as Amsoil OE. It's the same old tune from these folks.

I'm not necessarily a fan but what I'm saying is that it doesn't matter which brand you're using. If we were talking Pennzoil, Valvoline, Castrol etc, I would say the same thing. It just so happens it's Amsoil OE, which it seems you've got a big problem with. I mean I don't really want to say the H word but...