ATF UOA--Did I blow it with improper sampling?

[TallPaul]

1990 Ford E350 cutaway van, 27-foot motorhome, with 460 V8 and E4OD transmission. Changed transmission fluid at 74,000 miles. Existing fluid was 50% original (presumed, bought used) and 50% Mobil 1 Mercon ATF installed with filter change at 52,000 miles (when purchased). Sample analysis was afterthought and so was taken from empty 1 gallon Ice Mountain spring water jugs that I drained it into and should have been dry (but the high parameters are not exactly what you would expect in springwater if residue was on the inside of the bottle). Anyway samples were collected by draining torque converter directly into jugs and by siphoning from dipstick tube with clear plastic tubing (possible silicon source) from hardware. So the sample results may be suspect, but might as well post them. BTW, the transmission performs just fine and was refilled with M1. There are about 3 to 4 quarts still in there of the old fluid (total capacity 16 qts). Only thing I can do now is forget it and/or pull another sample (by plastic tube down dipstick tube) sometime after I rack up 10,000 or so miles.

Aluminum 10
Chromium 2
Copper 181
Iron 77
Lead 87 abnormal
Tin 12
Silicon 31 abnormal
Potassium 5
Sodium 18
Moly 0
Water less than 0.1
Oxidation 7.4
Gycol ND

Comments:
Suspect clutch/disc pack damage.
Silicon level (dirt/seal material) higher than normal.
Moderate concentration of water present.
Resample at next service interval to monitor.
Drain oil from unit if not already done.

 

[MolaKule]

The readings are certainly suspect.

For a motor home, I would use an OCI of 30,000 miles or less.

I would change fluid again and sample into a regular and clean sample container from Blackstone within 10,000 miles. Let's see if the trending is downward for the wear metals and silicon.

Make sure your sampling apparatus has been flushed and cleaned before taking next sample. Use Seafoam or something similar to clean it. Wear gloves when cleaning the sampler. Put your sampler in a large plastic zipper bag when not being used.

If it's any consolation, I have seen crud stay in a transmission for >30,000 miles and then be dispersed by the fresh additives to only then show high wear metals.

The future trending and shift feel should show if any damage has really occurred.

 

[TallPaul]

Thanks MolaKule. With partial fluid changes I have to change it even more frequently than 30,000 miles. This stuff was brownish and left a ring on the blotter card when I looked at it.

Trouble is finding a good shop to do it. Place that does my cars won't touch the MH. Mechanic I used to go to did it at 52,000 and didn't bother to drain torque converter; hence, only half the fluid got changed.

I think I am in pretty good shape for now, but another UOA is definitely in order in 10,000 miles or so. Running good now, so I am not worried. Shift feels good but maybe because I have the Banks Transcommand shift module installed (possibly masking any problems).

Will have to tighten up the sampling procedure, though. Wonder if CRC Electronic Contact Cleaner (leaves no residue) would work as a rinse for the sample tube? It evaporates quickly.

Sure would be nice if auto transmissions came with a drain plug and spin on filter.

 

[TallPaul]

Thanks MolaKule and VaderSS.

Good point re the frequent changes and additives; results in less variation in additive levels over the long run.

Nice feature that Nissan has all those drain and fill plugs. My Mazda 5 speed on the F150 is like that--handy. A drain plug on the rear end would be good too. Just syphoned out the motorhome rear end last weekend and filled with Redline.

The CRC contact cleaner is great. I also have their brake cleaner, which also says it leaves no residue, but smells bad. Sure worked good on that anthill though.

I found a pan (deeper with 2 extra quarts) with a drain and fins for the E4OD. Might do that next time. Or could go with the B&M drain plug kit like I am doing with wife's Aerostar (got some Redline ATF going in that one).

I know I also can get an inline spin on filter kit, but probably still have to change the internal filter.

I need to check out the transmission Auto-Rx site. Sort of shut myself out from doing that though as I have M1 in both vehicles auto transmissions.

 

[MolaKule]

TallPaul,

Just do frequent partial changes. I prefer this method to a bulk flush because it slowly removes contaminants and keeps fresh aditives in the oil.

One of the reasons I purchased Nissans was because they have a drain and fill plug on everything that has fluid, except the PS. Can't say much for their Engine Control Programming and software, but that's another topic.

IF the CRC contact cleaner has no oil or residue, then that would be a good cleaner for the sampler.
Make sure the tube and pump gets cleaned.
A squirt of non-fluorinated brake cleaner is good too!

 

[VaderSS]

You can buy pans with drains or add a drain.

I would do an Auto-Rx application before any fluid exchange.