ATF resistance to foaming

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On the weekend I did a very unscientific comparison of the anti-foam characteristics of some ATFs. Here's what I did:

1. Heat the ATF to 130°F/54°C (touchable yet warm).
2. Beat for 2 min with a Dremel wire brush.
3. Observe bubbles at 0 sec, 10 sec, and 60 sec.

The observations:

Valvoline Maxlife VV324 Dex/Merc
Very little bubble formation during beating, those that form coalesce quickly, all gone by 60 sec.

Coastal (Warren Unilube) ATF+4
Slight bubble formation during beating, coalesce quickly, all gone by 60 sec.

Mobil 1 (silver bottle purchased this spring)
Some bubble formation; most bubbles coalesce quickly and pop; a few persist at 60 sec.

Supertech (Warren Performance) Dexron VI
Moderate frothing during the beating; the small bubbles fizz to the surface within 10 sec. Many coalesce and remain at 60 sec.

B&M TrickShift (old half-full bottle of unknown age, obtained from neighbor)
Fluid is dyed blue! Considerable frothing during the beating; fizz at the surface for 10 sec. The bubble coalesce and remain for several minutes. Interesting observation: fluid cast-off during the beating was much less than other fluids.

I took pictures, but they're not terribly illustrative, and this is a really crude test. I'd love to see how different ATFs perform in a proper foam test like ASTM D892 or D6082.

I was motivated to do this experiment after seeing some bubbles on my trans dipstick after some mountain driving that was followed by gear grinding on the short drive home. It's a 2005 4T65-E-HD transmission that I had nearly 100% full of Supertech Dexron VI that was only 7100 mi old. Seeing that the Maxlife performed the best in my test and is supposedly a valid Dexron-IIIH replacement, I changed 5.5 qt of it into the car. The trans does shift somewhat firmer now, so it must have some different frictional properties.
 
I wonder if ST's lackluster showing is a consequence of the Warren blend or of the standard. Would everyone's Dexron VI perform the same way?
 
is going to ask the dumb question, what part of the transmission does the wire brush duplicate?

This is not a smart as* question nor is meant to start a fight.
 
Originally Posted By: duaneb9729
is going to ask the dumb question, what part of the transmission does the wire brush duplicate?

This is not a smart as* question nor is meant to start a fight.

Absolutely nothing. Then again, the ASTM tests just use air injection nozzles, which also are not like anything realistic.

My idea is just to get air bubbles into the fluid, and then see what happens to them.

It's a good question. I understand your little disclaimer--people have had really short fuses on here for the last few weeks. Holiday stress?
 
In this case, agitation is agitation. The wire brush is one great way to do it.
There are a number of parts in an auto trans that move wickedly .

BTW - Thanks for the test. I believe it is valid.
 
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Originally Posted By: dave123
I hope no one uses this information or test for their choice of fluid quality.

A good disclaimer. There are lots of other ATF performance characteristics that are more important for most applications.
 
Originally Posted By: Stu_Rock
Originally Posted By: dave123
I hope no one uses this information or test for their choice of fluid quality.

A good disclaimer. There are lots of other ATF performance characteristics that are more important for most applications.


True - but it does shed light again on the questionable formulation that may possibly be an issue with wal-mart products.
 
This may be an indication of the amount of siloxanes (anti-foam) additives:


https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/additives-xii-multifunctional-additives.41173/

Quote:
Multifunctional Additives (in Alphabetical Order) listed as to Functional Agent, additive category, general or specific chemical compound, and how it works, respectively.

Antifoamants or foam inhibitors (Protective Additive): polymers such as silicone polymers and organic copolymers of the silaxane's; creates a lens that reduces the bubble's surface tension.
 
I might use this for an excuse to not buy supertech when a national brand is only slightly higher, but as far as a test.. this is only slightly more significant than oil color determining quality.

both mean something but what exactly do they mean?

I guess if they were all the same spec fluids I would give it more credit but this is sort of like beating 5w20 and 20w50 and saying the 5w20 is more resistant to foaming...

you dont know if its a viscosity thing... or an additive or what.

I'd like to see a comparison of 3-4 fluids of the same spec.

I do appreciate you took the time to do this test.. and I think further testing would be interesting.

maybe a couple short video sequences most regular digital cameras can take vga+ quality video.
 
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Thanks for the compliments

Originally Posted By: Rand
I'd like to see a comparison of 3-4 fluids of the same spec.

So would I, but I'm not inclined to spend the money on samples. I just used what I had on hand. There are a couple different brands of Dexron VI available at my neighborhood stores, and I was considering getting them to try out. But I was running short on time and the MaxLife performed well in my test, so I put that in the car and called it a day.

I sat on my results for a day deciding whether or not to post them up here. They really aren't that rigorous, and in the case of the two licensed samples, they don't provide any apples-to-apples information. I ultimately decided to post, but to distance myself from any statement of significance. I do stand by the relative performance observations (that is, MaxLife foams less than SuperTech Dexron VI).


Originally Posted By: Whitewolf
Why not just use the ASTM D892 with the addition of Sequence IV.

I realize that's a tongue-in-cheek comment, but I used to work at testing lab (not for oils, though) before returning to grad school, so the thought of doing a proper D892 test did briefly cross my mind. Then, reality (time and money) quickly set in.
 
I do try to avoid supertech brand, but their filters arent too bad. I generally would pay the extra $.90 and go motorcraft though.
 
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