Please explain why.
AMSOIL ATF MERCON SP & DEXRON VI EXPALINATION
- Thread starter Don Stefanik
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Please explain why.
Whitewolf - I don't think I was addressing my last comment at you (or anyone) in particular. I don't think anyone is saying it doesn't meet the spec. at 100°C, hence the purpose for this thread. I can't think of other aspects it doesn't meet, though.
This is a great topic. Wisely and civilly discussed. Counter to some recent perceptions. Thanks guys.
This is a great topic. Wisely and civilly discussed. Counter to some recent perceptions. Thanks guys.
PT1 wrote: "Looks quite the opposite to me based on this chart...since most "cold" operating temps in the Northern parts (ex Alaska) are in the 0-40F range."
I am clearly missing something in this discussion. The temperature range of -40 to -20 Celsius is approximately equal to -40 to 0 Fahrenheit. Over this range, the two products are very similar with Amsoil being 7.5% thinner at the extreme end of the range.
The range of -20 to 0 Celsius is approximately equal to 0 to 40 Fahrenheit. Over this range, the products are very similar with the DexVI product being 7.1% thinner at the high end of this temperature range.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but much of the northern parts of North America would see temperatures well below 0 Fahrenheit. I live in the south and I would not consider 0 to 40 Fahrenheit as extreme cold. It was 16 degrees F this morning in Blacksburg, Virginia -- not unusually cold.
I am clearly missing something in this discussion. The temperature range of -40 to -20 Celsius is approximately equal to -40 to 0 Fahrenheit. Over this range, the two products are very similar with Amsoil being 7.5% thinner at the extreme end of the range.
The range of -20 to 0 Celsius is approximately equal to 0 to 40 Fahrenheit. Over this range, the products are very similar with the DexVI product being 7.1% thinner at the high end of this temperature range.
Please correct me if I am wrong, but much of the northern parts of North America would see temperatures well below 0 Fahrenheit. I live in the south and I would not consider 0 to 40 Fahrenheit as extreme cold. It was 16 degrees F this morning in Blacksburg, Virginia -- not unusually cold.
That's pretty much what I was trying to say in a roundabout way. Given what a number of us know about blend and test variation it would be quite silly of any of us to say that at -40C there is a difference between fluids showing results of 8800 cP and 9500 cP.
I'd like to see when Amsoil will recommend the universal ATF for the Toyota WS specification. Even lower required cold weather viscosities.
Just look at the chart? In most of the average start up temps the amsoil fluid is too thick. BAsed on our practice here we would get slammed by GM for using products that fall outside their spec. The first thing the would do is ask us if we understood the spec and then grill us on why we had a problem following them. Then there would be much talk about remaining a supplier. They create these specs with a broader picture in mind usually from a systems approach. I know for a fact that DexronVI was created for 2 basic reasons, fuel efficiency and so they could have 1 fluid that would be applicable to all their vehicles (economy of scale for 1 facory fill). That said, they then have to use the Corvette & Cadilac platforms as the benchmark. Voilla....Dexron VI is born. They have the same issue with 5w30 vs 0w30 motor oils. If they have one trans or engine take a dump during testing then they run for the hills. Very high "groupthink" issue. That is what I meant. If the lube is outside their "decision chart" it's goodbye baby.
PT1 and KBFXDLI,
Are you guys under the impression that someone claimed that Amsoil ATF is a DexVI approved fluid? Amsoil recommends ATF for several applications, including applications where the manufacturer recommends DexVI. They do not claim to have manufacture's approval. The first post in this thread clarifies Amsoil's position. Even the logic behind Amsoil's specs for this fluid is elaborated in the first post.
This has to be getting old to other readers, I think that I will retired from this thread.
Are you guys under the impression that someone claimed that Amsoil ATF is a DexVI approved fluid? Amsoil recommends ATF for several applications, including applications where the manufacturer recommends DexVI. They do not claim to have manufacture's approval. The first post in this thread clarifies Amsoil's position. Even the logic behind Amsoil's specs for this fluid is elaborated in the first post.
This has to be getting old to other readers, I think that I will retired from this thread.
I look at the chart and I see a reasonably well fitting, but slightly shifted curve. The bottom line is that this shift will have no effect on the performance of the transmission.
Sorry if you misunderstood what I was saying and I don't know who the other guy you are referring to is. I just made a comment based on the chart and the Amsoil fellow asked me why I thought that so I answered him. I'm sorry for disagreeing here but it seems like you are talking out of both sides of your mouth by saying the fluid manufacturer doesn't claim to meet the manufacturers (GM's) spec but it ok to use it anyway? My point was that in my experience this would be a poor engineering decision unless you were doing it to prove a point and ultimately create a better solution or that Amsoil was much less expensive or easier to get etc. Actually because of the economies of scale I believe DexronVI will be less expensive, have considerable long life and be easier to get than Amsoil. But that is only because the major refiner/blenders will drive the price downward with higher production rates and better product placement and promotion. Amsoil will need to do something quite better to justify it's expensive price because GM is now calling for 100k OCI's with the DexronVI under "normal" service. My point is why bother with Amsoil when it doesn't meet the GM spec when there is a less expensive alternative? That is my point.
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