My jeep has nearly 200,000 miles on the transmission. It holds about 8 quarts, and I get about 3.5 out when I drain the pan. For the last 3 weeks I have been draining the pan every weekend, because it looked pretty dirty and the cooler lines are kind of hard to get to. I have drained it 3 times now, and the ATF coming out looks just as dirty as it did the first time! Why is it still so dirty?? I mean, it was rather dirty to begin with, but I've put in almost 11 quarts of clean fluid! Any thoughts?
ATF is STILL dirty!
- Thread starter SteveD2
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Did you drop the pan and clean it? Did you change the filter?
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I once flushed a power steering unit the same way. I would syphon the fluid from the reservoir and replenish with fresh fluid. I went through 4 quarts on that darned thing and the fluid was still almost black.
The only thing I can figure out is that it takes very little dirty fluid to contaminate the fresh and clean fluid. The performance characteristics are probably fine with your drain and fill technique but there is always going to be some residual in the system. Transmissions will have almost a carbon black soot that develops from clutch disc wear. If you remove your pan you'll probably see a black/grey slurry of mud and quite possibly a few hairy looking magnets.
The only thing I can figure out is that it takes very little dirty fluid to contaminate the fresh and clean fluid. The performance characteristics are probably fine with your drain and fill technique but there is always going to be some residual in the system. Transmissions will have almost a carbon black soot that develops from clutch disc wear. If you remove your pan you'll probably see a black/grey slurry of mud and quite possibly a few hairy looking magnets.
Take a look at all the fun stuff I found in my (unhealthy) GM 4T60-E transmission:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000880
I was able to get about 7.5-8 quarts out of it, and refilled it with fresh fluid, it looked clean on the dipstick until after I drove the car for the first time, then it looked dirty again. However, not nearly as dirty as it did before.
She needs a rebuild.
http://theoildrop.server101.com/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=16;t=000880
I was able to get about 7.5-8 quarts out of it, and refilled it with fresh fluid, it looked clean on the dipstick until after I drove the car for the first time, then it looked dirty again. However, not nearly as dirty as it did before.
She needs a rebuild.
Yeah, thats why I'm posting. I know it shouldn't look completely clean the way I'm doing it, but it looks EXACTLY the same. I have the fluid in clear 2 liter bottles, shined a light through them side by side, and could not tell a difference at all. I'm doing the same thing with my PS fluid right now too, still somewhat dirty after 2 quarts but noticeably cleaner than it was when I started...
I would use AUto-Rx. It will clean and revitilize all of the seals. Then get all of the old fluid flushed out and then drop pan and replace filter and refill!
Try my Transmission calculator:
Transmission Calculator
It is an excel spreadsheet. It asks you for the amount you drain, your total capacity, and what percentage you want changed.
It gives you a table of what percentage is new fluid in your transmission......
After 3 changes (based on your numbers), it should be ~82% new fluid....
It also gives you a graph showing that after the first time you change your fluid, you remove "new" fluid with old. Hence, you get diminishing returns with every change.....
Transmission Calculator
It is an excel spreadsheet. It asks you for the amount you drain, your total capacity, and what percentage you want changed.
It gives you a table of what percentage is new fluid in your transmission......
After 3 changes (based on your numbers), it should be ~82% new fluid....
It also gives you a graph showing that after the first time you change your fluid, you remove "new" fluid with old. Hence, you get diminishing returns with every change.....
I had to use 16 qts to bring a 10 qrt sump up to an good red colour. I siphoned it out of the dipstick hole.
Took all weekend.
Dave
Dave
It also took me 16 qts of atf to 'flush' the system using the cooler lines. Within a few months it was dark again. I considered this normal. It was cleaning out all the crap from 120,000 miles of use on the same fluid. The previous owner never changed the atf.
DEWFPO
DEWFPO
MolaKule
Staff member
Either way, I had rather shell out the $50 for fluid than $2500 for a rebuild.
MolaKule
Staff member
Grey paste is from gearing teeth and bearings, other stuff is most likely clutch material.
If thin film or sparse paste, not bad.
If thin film or sparse paste, not bad.
The AW-4 (Aisin-Warner) in our 2001 Cherokee holds about 11-12 quarts. I added a cooler and filter (auxiliary) after servicing pan (pita), added new cheapo stuff to spec, then drained off at return lines. Used Schaeffers #204s Dexron to refill at dipstick. About two/three quarts at a time.
Alright, I changed the fluid yet again yesterday. So far I have put in 14 quarts of new fluid...and the thing only holds 8.5 quarts total. It's STILL DIRTY...and doesn't smell like the new fluid at all! Using turbochem's calculator I should have changed about 94% of the fluid this way. The fluid only had about 30,000 miles on it when I started. Even if it was completely black tar inside my transmission, how can it STILL be this dirty? Like I said before, it's still working perfectly, but being the oil freak that I am this bothers me.
(dirty fluid on the left, new Chevron Dextron III on the right)
(dirty fluid on the left, new Chevron Dextron III on the right)
If you didnt clean out the sludge and so forth before you started the fluid change, all you are doing is using the nice new detergent ATF to clean a little of the sludge every refill.
Do the AutoRx per instructions, then get the T-Tec flush or similar (BG around here) then you can start fresh.
It would seem all you are doing is contaminating fresh fluid with old muck.
Do the AutoRx per instructions, then get the T-Tec flush or similar (BG around here) then you can start fresh.
It would seem all you are doing is contaminating fresh fluid with old muck.
Instead of switching fluids, why not call around to various shops to find a shop that has does a complete transmission flush (torque converter included). If you just do a filter change, you end getting only half (varies from vehicle to vehicle) of the dirty transmission fluid.
why not just spend an hour and disconnect the cooler lines? doing it like this is crazy imho.
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