ATF for a 96 Chrysler T&C ?

[G-MAN]

quote:

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Well, you gotta take a quote out of my 99 jeep FSM. (paraphrased): Don't use Dexron II or you'll experience converter clutch shudder. It too spec's 7176. So it's obvious that "destroying clutch material" isn't DC wide ..even though the spec was.

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Maybe I'm just dense, but can you explain the relationship between the following two sentences:

"Don't use Dexron II or you'll experience converter clutch shudder."

"So it's obvious that 'destroying clutch material' isn't DC wide ..even though the spec was."

 

[LargeCarMan]

FROM REDLINE's WEBSITE:

RED LINE C+ ATF - Satisfies the performance requirements of Chrysler Types 7176 and ATF+4 (Type 9602), while providing 30% greater operating viscosity, 1/3 the evaporation of petroleum ATFs, and improved oxidation and sludge protection. Red Line C+ ATF provides the exact frictional characteristics required in the Type 7176 specification, providing proper shift feel and proper lockup torque converter operation. The use of an improper fluid could cause torque converter shudder or harsh shifting. Red Line C+ ATF also provides the best low-temperature shiftability in automatic transmissions allowing proper shifting at extremely low temperatures and will flow down to temperatures as low as -60°C. The improved wear protection makes C+ ATF the perfect automatic transmission or transaxle fluid for Chrysler vehicles.

Also, to answer the Amsoil Question, I never have used Amsoil ATF in my Chrysler 4 Speed Automatic....But Amsoil say's it meets the requirements..This is one time I am staying with Redline because they make it specific for this type of transmission.

 

[Gary Allan]

Let me rephrase my statments a little better. Proof reading isn't my strong suit

Granted the 30 and 32Rh are not "ultradrive transmissions" ..I should have said that the use of Dexron II would ONLY result in converter clutch chatter/shudder and NOT in fluid degradation causing problems due to incompatability with clutch material (as in the ultradrive).

So ..as you should be able to see here. The use of "spec fluid" isn't ALWAYS for preventing fluid degradation due to incompatablity with clutch material ..since DC obviously doesn't use the same clutch material in all their tranmissions. Otherwise the warning would have stated something like: WARNING!!! DAMAGE WILL RESULT!!!

But it doesn't. I merely states that you'll get converter clutch chatter. No long term damage ..no drivability or longevity problems (other then the syptom of chatter) ..nada ...zip.

Chapter 21- page 76 of the 1999 Jeep Wrangler Service manual:

Recommended Fluid: Mopar® ATF Plus 3, type 7176 automatic transmission fluid is the recommended fluid for Chrysler automatic transmissions.
DExron II IS NOT recommended. Clutch chatter can result from the use of improper fluid

quote:

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The ATF+ spec was developed concurrently with the UltraDrive and early testing showed the Dexron add pack was not correct for the clutch material and would rapidly degrade and cause problems.

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Or is that too far of a stretch here, G-Man

[ December 05, 2005, 07:27 AM: Message edited by: Gary Allan ]

 

[G-MAN]

I give up.

 

[47HO]

quote:

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Has anyone ever tried Redline or Amzoil's Universal ATF in these transmissions that call for ATF+3 or 4?

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I've use it in my '02 Jeep GC (5 speed auto) that calls for ATF+4 with no ill effects.

 

[Gary Allan]

G-Man ..you've done nothing at all to correct me. You've merely, more or less, slapped me around with backdoor inuendo that I'm somehow defective. You've danced, dodged, and evaded. Why you even bother to post just doesn't make an whole lot of sense. This doesn't mean that I am making sense ..but

What is the key that unlocks some knowledge from you?? In all good natured humor ..you really appear to post in an annoyed and aloof manner. Somehow you appear to assign some territorial rights to this topic.

Are you French?

So come down from your lofty perch and help the rabble understand why you're shaking your head and appearing to take an offensive (and offending) posture. Me? I'm just annoying.

There are many brands of decaf that taste just as good as the real thing, pal.

 

[Russ300H]

My '95 LHS' tranny let go at 85k. I can't vouch for the prior service as I bought it used with 70K on it. At the time I wasn't aware of the problems and being used to 727 T/Flites didn't think much about it. The second one let go 15K later. The dealer serviced it during the 100K mile service and it dies 50 miles later! The third factory trans ran until a few months ago at 221K. At 20K(on the trans) I removed the dealer fluid and replaced it with Amsoil ATF +4. Thinking I was better off with the synthetic I ran that change for 50K. The last change, again with Amsoil ATF +4 was 45K later as I was doing a full service on the car at that time. 6K after that KAPUT!!
Personally I don't think Amsoil will solve the problems. From my experience I would change the fluid with anybody's +4 at 30K intervals and hope for the best!

Just my experience

BTW: The original pushbutton trans in my '63 300 still works fine. Yeah progress!

 

[Gary Allan]

It's the fluid. Those Ultraglides are as solid as the rock of Gibraltar. It's your fault or a random fluke. ;^)

 

[pbm]

I agree with GA that many modern transmissions have been 'weakened' in the attempt to get fractional mpg gains (I'm paraphrasing). Also the costs to fix many modern A/T's ($2 to $4+K) make the junkyard seem the better option. Chrysler seemed to start this trend but many (including the once vaunted Honda) have followed suit. Despite all their problems GM is still making reliable and durable A/T's. There really should be no reason that an A/T shouldn't last as long as the engine. They used to.

 

[acewiza]

Maybe we need a new forum, called something like "FUBAR, Bent, Broke, Burned and Out of Warranty"

It could be like a support group for those suffering that hopeless feeling that occurs immediately after the trans dumps, motor seizes, whatever.

I can just imagine some of the topics now:

"Smoke seen coming from underneath Chrysler 2.7, any worries?"

"Does the chemical composition of sludge vary between syn and dino?"

"Fourth transmission in five years, need advice"

Ya think?

 

[99]

As already mentioned, only use Chrysler spec trans fluids. In your case it's going to be either ATF+3 or ATF+4. The owner's manual and/or dipstick will tell you which one to use. Chrysler issued a TSB a year or so ago saying to go with ATF+4 if your trans originally used ATF+3. There were some exceptions to this, but nearly every auto trans Chrysler/Jeep had was given the OK to use the ATF+4.

 

[Gary Allan]

quote:

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Maybe we need a new forum, called something like "FUBAR, Bent, Broke, Burned and Out of Warranty"

It could be like a support group for those suffering that hopeless feeling that occurs immediately after the trans dumps, motor seizes, whatever.

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I would think this would be more like it:

"Ultraglide engineering team office and home address list - tell them yourself!!"
"AOXD holiday greetings list- show them you care!"
"Necklace or necktie? Grab it and force the person to meet a hard place!- sensitivity training and consumer review!"

 

[pbm]

Anyone who feels that Chrysler transmission problems are strictly "fluid related" are out of touch. Chrysler made some s### trannies.

 

[labman]

Never recall driving a Chrysler product that I liked the transmission, manual or automatic. That included a Spirit R&T with a 5 speed Getrag. Of course I am stuck with one of them in my Cavalier now.

 

[LargeCarMan]

Guy's Folks Men Women Chrysler Products are rock solid as any other OEM...my 4 speed automatic lasted 150,000 miles...not great but not bad. My 727 and 999 V8 transmissions are wonderful..Some of the 904/slant 6's lasted 300 grand. But I want one of the new 6 speeds....

 

[Gary Allan]

I'd expect your 727, 904/909/999 to last a life time. If it didn't ..and if you could remove it .you could rebuild it in an afternoon for about $80 worth of parts. You could abuse them ..and so what? You rebuild it if it does go south

The only time I saw a 727 have issues was when it was coupled to a Hemi ..and the gas pedal was coupled to a teenager with a daddy with very deep pockets.

I was so pleased that I have a 30rh (aka 904/999/909) in my jeep.

You could buy a new car for the cost of your 4 speed rebuild.

I do agree that Chrysler isn't the only junkyard filler. It's mainly that they sold so many minivans and had a high enough incidence of failure (it was probably a very low %) that they get the lame label. You could say that they were the best at being the worst.

That being said in their defense ..I will never consider any vehicle with an automatic transmission to be reliable. It's proven to be the weak link.