Well this is the third tranny at 155k which seems to be about avg for the tranny eating chrysler vans. We just bought this from our in laws and they just (like a week ago) had a Mopar Factory rebuilt tranny put in and I want to do everything I can do to make sure the tranny can go atleast 100k. I figure the best way to do this is to run synthetic ATF. The store up the road from me sells the Amsoil universal ATF for under $8/qt and that is already in my dad's corolla and I am wondering if this would work in the chrysler...any input would be appreciated. also would it be safe to put in syn ATF with so few miles on the new trans? if not what is a good mileage or time table to make the switch?
ATF for a 96 Chrysler T&C ?
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I think the Amsoil would be fine. I would add a Mangefine or other auxillary filter in the cooling circuit. It would have save me from my first rebuild in my 96 Caravan when my converter went south. You've probably got the more sophisticated OD trans. Others probably have more advice for you.
I think the more correct term is "van eating Chrysler trannies". More minivans have been sent to the junkyard or bought by the trans shop owner because of them.
I think the more correct term is "van eating Chrysler trannies". More minivans have been sent to the junkyard or bought by the trans shop owner because of them.
Synthetic ATF + external filter + extra ATF cooler + regular fluid service = longer life transmission life
The 1st thing to address is the ATF temperature. Get the largest ATF cooler that will fit.
Then, change the ATF when you can afford to(as soon as possible).
And, add filtration.
You can use a remote oil filter kit. Plus, if you have room, you can use pint, quart, or 2-quart sized oil filters. Increasing sump capacity will reduce ATF temperature spikes.
If you don't have a drainplug, add one to make regular ATF servicing easier!
The 1st thing to address is the ATF temperature. Get the largest ATF cooler that will fit.
Then, change the ATF when you can afford to(as soon as possible).
And, add filtration.
You can use a remote oil filter kit. Plus, if you have room, you can use pint, quart, or 2-quart sized oil filters. Increasing sump capacity will reduce ATF temperature spikes.
If you don't have a drainplug, add one to make regular ATF servicing easier!
Don't go there. ATF+3 or ATF+4 only. Look at the dipstick, follow the maufacturer's recommendation. Pretty simple really. You may also wish to check out this link:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
Actually, for a '96, ATF+4 only - and then change fluid and filter every 30,000 miles at the latest.
[ November 14, 2005, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
[ November 14, 2005, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
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Plenty of the owners used +3 and had their trannies grenade anyway. Design flaws. They took near a decade to fix them. The principle difference, or so we are told, between +3 and +4 is the basestocks ..not the functional properties. You can use +4 longer in service ..or it will last longer in service then +3. If you replace +3 often enough, you don't have to use +4.
Don't go there. ATF+3 or ATF+4 only. Look at the dipstick, follow the maufacturer's recommendation. Pretty simple really. You may also wish to check out this link:
http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
http://www.allpar.com/fix/trans.html
Specifically, what design flaw are you referring to Gary? Plenty of people eat their vegetables, don't smoke and get cancer anyway, as well. Still no reason to ignore sound advice on said subj. I wouldn't complain about tranny problems in the Chrysler gearboxes using anything other than the +3/4 fluids.
I think Chrysler Re-Man transmissions fixed the problem. But I am going to run a Magnafine and Redline Spec ATF. I just passed the 36,ooo mile warranty.
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acewiza
My point was that Chrysler trannies came with spec'd fluid and still failed ...in massive numbers above most of the competition. They had a decade of high noteriety for this characteristic. There was one poster (I forget who
) who went through the entire 90's evolution on poorly or under engineered aspects of the transmission. My final response to him was "So you're saying that it took a decade for them to correct the lame design into a reliable transmission?".
There are thousands of trans shops that NEVER stocked anything except Dexron. They merely, in every 7176 application, added friction modifier. How could they get away with this and warrant their work?
Now surely it's recommended to use +4 in a +4 application ..but if in fact +4 is merely +3 in a semi-synth base stock (as we've been told by some authorative members)..and your paranoia is going to have you changing it at a rate that is shorter then the recommendation for +3 ...then why pay for +4?
My point was that Chrysler trannies came with spec'd fluid and still failed ...in massive numbers above most of the competition. They had a decade of high noteriety for this characteristic. There was one poster (I forget who
There are thousands of trans shops that NEVER stocked anything except Dexron. They merely, in every 7176 application, added friction modifier. How could they get away with this and warrant their work?
Now surely it's recommended to use +4 in a +4 application ..but if in fact +4 is merely +3 in a semi-synth base stock (as we've been told by some authorative members)..and your paranoia is going to have you changing it at a rate that is shorter then the recommendation for +3 ...then why pay for +4?
Gary, did you read the link I sent on my first response to this thread? Those thousands of trans shops with nothing but Dexron along with their clueless techs are the ones responsible for the decade of failed transmissions, not Chrysler.
Another failer point of these transmissions are that they normally run hot 200F+ and that the in radiator cooler can also fail.This happen to my 96 DC luckly I had installed a transmission temp guage which gave me advance warning. So I bypassed the radiator cooler and installed a large stacked plate cooler, tranny temps fell 20-40F over stock temps.Best upgrade that can be done to Chrysler transmissions.
Trans shops typically don't employ clueless techs. They are usually better trained since they specialize in transmissions. Most certified quality shops UPGRADE transmissions and improve the reliability of those faulty transmissions.
Dexron wasn't the cause of failure for most of these failed transmissions. From what I remember from friends that worked at the dealership, most initial failures were repaired at the dealership under warranty while running OEM or dealer installed OEM fluids.
That FWD transmission family has numerous TSB upgrads, year to year upgradeds, and aftermarket upgrades. Just visit ATRA/ATSG/Alldata/.... or any transmission parts supplier for those issues addressed with improvements.
An aftermarket add-on cooler is a must on ANY poorly engineered transmission. Heat brings out the worst in ALL transmissions.
Dexron wasn't the cause of failure for most of these failed transmissions. From what I remember from friends that worked at the dealership, most initial failures were repaired at the dealership under warranty while running OEM or dealer installed OEM fluids.
That FWD transmission family has numerous TSB upgrads, year to year upgradeds, and aftermarket upgrades. Just visit ATRA/ATSG/Alldata/.... or any transmission parts supplier for those issues addressed with improvements.
An aftermarket add-on cooler is a must on ANY poorly engineered transmission. Heat brings out the worst in ALL transmissions.
As noted, add an external cooler, optionally add an external filter. Fluid flush every 20K miles. '96's use ATF+3. You can use ATF+4, but if you flush frequently, that's probably just flushing money away.
My '99 just crossed 133K miles, and shifts like new. At 120K miles I cut open the external filter which had 20K miles of use on it. The paper was clean as a whistle.
When aftermarket ATF+4 starts showing up in parts stores and assuming the price isn't outrageous, I'll use that and extend the change interval to ... haven't decided yet! Maybe double it to 40K miles. That's under 2 years for me. At the 20K miles flush, the ATF+3 coming out looks like new fluid.
My '99 just crossed 133K miles, and shifts like new. At 120K miles I cut open the external filter which had 20K miles of use on it. The paper was clean as a whistle.
When aftermarket ATF+4 starts showing up in parts stores and assuming the price isn't outrageous, I'll use that and extend the change interval to ... haven't decided yet! Maybe double it to 40K miles. That's under 2 years for me. At the 20K miles flush, the ATF+3 coming out looks like new fluid.
Yep, I did and about 20% of the TSBs for a '96 chrysler were "A/T" or trans-ralated. Same for a '96 GM pickup. Probably around the same % of trans related TSBs for the typical Ford econobox that year, for that matter.
Point is, this sort of non-specific ** circulating in forums like this perpetuates these myths. Guess what the A/T TSB was most recent, right at the top of the list?
"ATF Usage List" Duh, go figure...
Point is, this sort of non-specific ** circulating in forums like this perpetuates these myths. Guess what the A/T TSB was most recent, right at the top of the list?
"ATF Usage List" Duh, go figure...
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Oh acewiza ..there are plenty of lame autos out there ..it's just that Chrysler had the distinction of being the leader in the vanguard of the devolution of automatic reliablity. They over sophisticated a much simpler device into a problem prone device. This was all for some fractional CAFE relief ..when the failures in service cost more money and energy then they saved in the offering. There were millions of automatics of conventional design that withstood massive torque and hp of V8s and much heavier vehicles. They turned a $500-700 rebuild into a $1700-$4000 ordeal ..sending many cars to the junkyard that had to be replaced by high energy content new vehicles ..at a tremendous cost.
It may actually be getting better ..but not so long ago you could always find the trans shop ..it had plenty of Chrysler minivans parked outside.
I'm a member of allpar, btw ..and I would like to point out that you directed me to a rather lengthy page on what is lame about their automatics.
From that page in regard to fluid and other things:
Ted Mittelstaedt noted: "Everything I've found indicates ATF+3 is not synthetic, ATF+4 is synthetic."
and
Jim, the owner of Gene Poon's transmission shop, died of cancer. Jim knew his customers, and had so much of their trust that customers would ask him advice on what new cars to buy. When Gene bought his used Intrepid, he first asked Jim about the status of the 604/Ultradrive. Jim assured him the early problems were solved, and Gene has been happy with his Intrepid since. However, when Jim found that Gene had bought one, he sent a script for customers buying new or used Chryslers. If anyone benefits from this, they can mentally thank Jim... [We've shortened this notice substantially, partly due to the passage of time.]
* CONGRATULATIONS, NEW CHRYSLER OWNER!
Some advice on the 4-speed automatic transmission:
This transmission, which is used in virtually ALL Chrysler Corporation [Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge] cars and minivans, got a bad reputation early on for poor reliability. The weaknesses in the transmission have been fixed. But there is something which is the OWNER'S responsibility to see to: the proper care and feeding of this transmission.
Observe the "Severe Service" maintenance schedule.
Sounds like a 3k/3m recommendation to me. A fine testimonial to technological excellence and engineeriing integrity.
They hire the award winners in literature to write all the government forms. Why state things simply when you can get a Pulitzer Prise for an unemployment form
? They appear to do this with automotive engineers as well. This authority, may he rest in peace, is warning you to be perpetually "on guard" against the darker aspects of the trans that you've got in your vehicle.
If an engine came with such an endorsement ..you wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole ..even if everyone said "Just use Mobil 1 and you'll be fine ..trust me!!".
It may actually be getting better ..but not so long ago you could always find the trans shop ..it had plenty of Chrysler minivans parked outside.
I'm a member of allpar, btw ..and I would like to point out that you directed me to a rather lengthy page on what is lame about their automatics.
From that page in regard to fluid and other things:
Ted Mittelstaedt noted: "Everything I've found indicates ATF+3 is not synthetic, ATF+4 is synthetic."
and
Jim, the owner of Gene Poon's transmission shop, died of cancer. Jim knew his customers, and had so much of their trust that customers would ask him advice on what new cars to buy. When Gene bought his used Intrepid, he first asked Jim about the status of the 604/Ultradrive. Jim assured him the early problems were solved, and Gene has been happy with his Intrepid since. However, when Jim found that Gene had bought one, he sent a script for customers buying new or used Chryslers. If anyone benefits from this, they can mentally thank Jim... [We've shortened this notice substantially, partly due to the passage of time.]
* CONGRATULATIONS, NEW CHRYSLER OWNER!
Some advice on the 4-speed automatic transmission:
This transmission, which is used in virtually ALL Chrysler Corporation [Chrysler, Plymouth, and Dodge] cars and minivans, got a bad reputation early on for poor reliability. The weaknesses in the transmission have been fixed. But there is something which is the OWNER'S responsibility to see to: the proper care and feeding of this transmission.
Observe the "Severe Service" maintenance schedule.
Sounds like a 3k/3m recommendation to me. A fine testimonial to technological excellence and engineeriing integrity.
They hire the award winners in literature to write all the government forms. Why state things simply when you can get a Pulitzer Prise for an unemployment form
If an engine came with such an endorsement ..you wouldn't touch it with a 10 foot pole ..even if everyone said "Just use Mobil 1 and you'll be fine ..trust me!!".
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I can't, pal!! ..but you won't begrudge me a rant every now and then, will you?
No arguments, Gary - but as usual we have gone off on a tangent. All matters of design, maufacuring technology, shop skullduggery, stealership stupidity, govt' regs ad nauseum aside:
My one and only point in this matter is that it is irresponsible to advise anyone to use anything other than +3/+4 in these automatics.
How can you argue with that?
My one and only point in this matter is that it is irresponsible to advise anyone to use anything other than +3/+4 in these automatics.
How can you argue with that?
How about the obvious suggestion that you change your driving style to put less stress on the transmission? I see a lot of drivers (both men and women) that accelerate hard and brake hard at every stop sign or stop light. Maybe that gives them a feeling of excitement of delight, but I think it takes a lot of life out of their transmission, brakes, and other parts. You can't have it both ways.
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