ATF Flash Points

[thescreensavers]

I am looking at ATF choices and noticed some variability in flash points based on the MSDS.

• Redline D4 - 298F (Closed Cup PMCC)
  Redline does list 437F as D4s flashpoint but the SDS(issued 9/17) is not in agreement. ( Link to Doc but no Rev Date )
• Royal Purple Syncromesh - 429.8F (Closed Cup)
• M1 Synthetic ATF - 428F (ASTM D-92)
• AMSoil SSMVS ATF - 453.2F (Open Cup)
• Maxlife Multi-Vehicle ATF - >390F (Closed Cup)

I know there is differences in testing methodologies (Open cup vs Closed Cup..etc) but, why would Redline D4 report a significantly lower flashpoint than the others?

 

[Olas]

The composition of redline throws the machines out of whack, similar to what we see with the reported oxidation levels

 

[PeterPolyol]

Could be using a really volatile additive?

Interesting M/SDS declarations though:
D4 span>
M1 ATF 20-30% PAO, 50-60% GrIII
AMSOIL 10-30% PAO
RP 'Synfilm 32'? Solvent-refined ingredient is all that's listed
Maxlife - Hydrotreated heavy distillates

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Even if the flashpoint is 298*F, is it really an issue? If the fluid in your transmission really, truly is enough to exceed that flashpoint for a significant amount of time, the fluid won't be the only thing on fire

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Even if the flashpoint is 298*F, is it really an issue? If the fluid in your transmission really, truly is enough to exceed that flashpoint for a significant amount of time, the fluid won't be the only thing on fire

Precisely. Flash point along with pour point are pretty useless parameters in regards to operation. If your fluid is in danger of ignition then you really do have other problems to worry about.

 

[kschachn]

Originally Posted By: Olas
The composition of redline throws the machines out of whack, similar to what we see with the reported oxidation levels

What? Are you saying the ASTM test isn't agnostic to the material under test? I've run flash point tests many times in college, I don't understand how the results of the test aren't the results, regardless of what is being tested. Flash point is a physical property and it's what you measure with a flash point test. Redline oil doesn't "throw the machines out of whack."

 

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted By: SubieRubyRoo
Even if the flashpoint is 298*F, is it really an issue? If the fluid in your transmission really, truly is enough to exceed that flashpoint for a significant amount of time, the fluid won't be the only thing on fire

Safety Factor? At the track my Camaro was seeing 210+ trans fluid sump temps(TR6060 uses ATF) and it's not the hottest time of the year, and likely hotter at interfaces.

If the fluid is getting close to its flash point can it also do it job?

 

[double vanos]

Mercon LV flash point is 421F COC and has a pour point of -54f per Motorcraft website. To destroy a transmission due to heat related fluid failure, You’d have to throw it into a bonfire.

 

[Nyogtha]

Originally Posted By: kschachn
Originally Posted By: Olas
The composition of redline throws the machines out of whack, similar to what we see with the reported oxidation levels

What? Are you saying the ASTM test isn't agnostic to the material under test? I've run flash point tests many times in college, I don't understand how the results of the test aren't the results, regardless of what is being tested. Flash point is a physical property and it's what you measure with a flash point test. Redline oil doesn't "throw the machines out of whack."


Agreed - the only difference in test method is which equipment is used.

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: thescreensavers
I am looking at ATF choices and noticed some variability in flash points based on the MSDS.

• Redline D4 - 298F (Closed Cup PMCC)
  Redline does list 437F as D4s flashpoint but the SDS(issued 9/17) is not in agreement. ( Link to Doc but no Rev Date )
• Royal Purple Syncromesh - 429.8F (Closed Cup)
• M1 Synthetic ATF - 428F (ASTM D-92)
• AMSoil SSMVS ATF - 453.2F (Open Cup)
• Maxlife Multi-Vehicle ATF - >390F (Closed Cup)

I know there is differences in testing methodologies (Open cup vs Closed Cup..etc) but, why would Redline D4 report a significantly lower flashpoint than the others?




Flash Points Explained

 

[thescreensavers]

Originally Posted By: MolaKule


Flash Points Explained


Was this just general information on testing methods or something else?

I emailed redline about the flash point here is their response

Originally Posted By: Red line Techsupport
The method listed on the SDS sheet is closed cup specifically for DOT requirements, the typically used industry method is open cup.

The open cup flash point for the D4ATF is 248°C (478°F).



Note that Valvoline and Royal Purple have significantly higher closed cup values listed

And per PDF that MolaKule posted

Quote:
"An open cup instrument will always give a higher flash point than
a closed cup as the open cup allows free loss of vapours to the
atmosphere above the instrument. Closed cup tests are usually
specified due to improved precision"

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: thescreensavers
Originally Posted By: MolaKule


Flash Points Explained


Was this just general information on testing methods or something else?



This was general educational and background information.