ANy Dodge transmission people out there? I talked to a guy aobut changing the filter and fluid out of my 2000 Dakota. The manual says to just drop the pan and change filter, and I have heard flushing this transmission can lead to problems so that is the plan. The question is, should I use Amsoil universal, pony up for the ATF +4, or do what this mechanic says he does--use ATF +3 with some added friction modifier? The Amsoil appears to be about $2-3 cheaper than I can get the ATF +4 for. ANy help would be appreciated.
ATF +3
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I have an 04 Ram and I had them put in Amsoil ATF +4 around 1,200 miles. My truck also calls for the ATF + 4. Dodge has always had some lousy transmissions and I wanted good fluid in their ASAP so I went with Amsoil. I'm not sure who makes the Mopar brand. BTW, they only will drain and refill the pan. My total capacity is like 16qts but only 9qts were added back when they drained the pan and refilled it.
Which transmission do you have?
46 RE with a 5.9 or 545RFE with the 4.7
In either case, buy the correct Mopar Filter, note the 4.7 has two filters. Get 14 qts Amsoil ATF/ Drop pan, change filter(s).clean pan and magnet, reinstall pan and fill per tranny pan drop from FSM. About 6-8 qts, dont have manual in front of me.
Disconnect return line from cooler and put extension hose into bucket/pan and do the dump and pump method. I start truck and put in drive for about 30 seconds. and shut off, about 1 qt will come out. Add 1 qt and repeat until you have about 12 qts replaced including what you originally put in during pan service. Reconnect cooler return line. Start up and let warm up. Put selector in all gears and park on level surface with truck running. Add fluid as needed, to bring up to bottom of cross hatch on stick. take for a ride. Recehck it. Let it sit ovenight and take for 10 mile run and then reread and add if needed. Remember you can always put more in but dont overfill.
VNT
46 RE with a 5.9 or 545RFE with the 4.7
In either case, buy the correct Mopar Filter, note the 4.7 has two filters. Get 14 qts Amsoil ATF/ Drop pan, change filter(s).clean pan and magnet, reinstall pan and fill per tranny pan drop from FSM. About 6-8 qts, dont have manual in front of me.
Disconnect return line from cooler and put extension hose into bucket/pan and do the dump and pump method. I start truck and put in drive for about 30 seconds. and shut off, about 1 qt will come out. Add 1 qt and repeat until you have about 12 qts replaced including what you originally put in during pan service. Reconnect cooler return line. Start up and let warm up. Put selector in all gears and park on level surface with truck running. Add fluid as needed, to bring up to bottom of cross hatch on stick. take for a ride. Recehck it. Let it sit ovenight and take for 10 mile run and then reread and add if needed. Remember you can always put more in but dont overfill.
VNT
MolaKule
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You might also want to see the links included in this article:
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000315
http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=4;t=000315
Schaeffer's new 204SAT is made for +3 & +4...not licensed by DaimlerChrysler but guaranteed by Schaeffer.
Ken
Ken
i would get the genuine mopar fluid
Just use the AMSOIL ATF. Will probably last as long as you own the car, but you can always run an oil analysis if you get nervous.
Guaranteed by Schaefer to what? Does Schaefer actually put it in binding, non-legalise writing that they'll have a DC trannie rebuilt on their nickel if DC refuses during the warranty period due to use of an unlicensed fluid?
Just a question but how, exactly, would the manufacturer prove that you used another fluid? Besides you tellingthem. UOA??
If a special fluid is specified, it is to avoid some sort of problem encountered in testing, the field, or both.
If the wrong fluid is used, that problem will surface.
At that point most owners, confronted with a statement such as "it's pretty obvious you were using a non-approved fluid in this" are so astounded they 'fess up on the spot. Of course, the dealership will give the factory service rep an oil sample as well in case it comes to that.
There is a reason that replaced warrantied parts are usually shipped back to a warranty center of some sort. Don't think the factory hasn't seen just about every abuse, misuse, bad fluid, weird additive, or other source of problems known to man.
Anytime you only change part of the fluid you are not getting the full benefit of the change. No matter how good the new ATF is, it is being diluted by the old fluid left in the trans be it good or bad. Would I add only a partial fill of Asmoil, no way. Its all or nothing IMO.
Dodge trucks have a bad reputation with A/T, The fluid has been blamed but if you talk with many trans experts they will say its the quality of the trans. We had Dodge trucks by the 100's at work, every year and body style. A/T failures were very common. Some would go out at low miles while others went for years and then dropped dead all of a sudden. From all contacts I have had with Dodge dealers over these A/T issues I notice that no a one of them will admit there's a problem even when we send them at least one truck a week with a failed trans they find a way to blame it on our drivers. The A/T problems on our Fords and GM is nil compared to the Dodge trucks. Our Equipment Inspector commented that is unusual for a Dodge truck to go 100,000 miles and not have a trans failure. T
Dodge trucks have a bad reputation with A/T, The fluid has been blamed but if you talk with many trans experts they will say its the quality of the trans. We had Dodge trucks by the 100's at work, every year and body style. A/T failures were very common. Some would go out at low miles while others went for years and then dropped dead all of a sudden. From all contacts I have had with Dodge dealers over these A/T issues I notice that no a one of them will admit there's a problem even when we send them at least one truck a week with a failed trans they find a way to blame it on our drivers. The A/T problems on our Fords and GM is nil compared to the Dodge trucks. Our Equipment Inspector commented that is unusual for a Dodge truck to go 100,000 miles and not have a trans failure. T
Schaeffer does stand behind their products. I have indeed heard of two cases where they provided checks for the full amount, one where a St. Louis guy made the wrong recommendation, and the other where the cause of the problem was in doubt. In any case, the only way to get an answer to your question is for you or a Schaeffer rep to get that answer from the home office.
Ken
i think the main problem is they are poorly designed transmissions even when assembled properly and maintained. it is the way they use gov. pressure valves and stupid check valves/balls that stick and boil your fluid.
I have had a chrysler transmission die 10,000 mi off the lot which was replaced, then replaced again 5,000 mi later which were both under warranty
I have had a chrysler transmission die 10,000 mi off the lot which was replaced, then replaced again 5,000 mi later which were both under warranty
Well I waited for Amsoil to come out with Mercon V fluid before I would put it in my 98 Taurus. It has worked very well 3years 18,000 miles knock on wood. Still looks cherry red.
Im going to test the Amsoil trans fluid with a Txchange trans from Portland, Oregon. I have a 91 Plymouth Voyager with A604 trans that I,ll test it on. These trans have tons of problems, so this will be a good test.
I,m also going to run an inline filter Magnifine or Racor.
I will keep ya posted.
Im going to test the Amsoil trans fluid with a Txchange trans from Portland, Oregon. I have a 91 Plymouth Voyager with A604 trans that I,ll test it on. These trans have tons of problems, so this will be a good test.
I,m also going to run an inline filter Magnifine or Racor.
I will keep ya posted.
Ray H - thank you for asking that question! It seems in the past Amsoil took a lot of heat for the same stance, ie providing a more specific fluid and Amsoil provides the same basic answer. I'm not sure the same poster would have answered in the same manner, however.
As for the original question. Yes the DC tranny has weaknesses. I, too recommend a full flush and the Amsoil ATF will work fine.
As for the original question. Yes the DC tranny has weaknesses. I, too recommend a full flush and the Amsoil ATF will work fine.
Ray,
To Whom It May Concern:
The various original equipment manufacturers will not void any product warranties if oil
drain intervals are to be extended as long as a rigorous maintenance program that
includes used oil analysis, close adherence to maintenance schedules and consistent
make-up oil additions are followed.
If there is any proven lubricant failure for any reason other than contamination of the
lubricant by antifreeze, water, dirt, etc. during usage or improper storage, Schaeffer
Manufacturing will take all steps necessary to see that the customer is adequately
reimbursed. Schaeffer Manufacturing maintains a fully staffed laboratory and technical
facility including three full time chemists that oversee the ISO 9000 Quality Assurance
program
Finally, in regards to product warranty Schaeffer Manufacturing Company will stand
behind all the oils, greases and diesel fuel additives we blend and compound. Schaeffer
Manufacturing is the oldest lubricant manufacturer in North America and has been in
business since 1839. Like any reputable company, Schaeffer Manufacturing carries
product liability insurance and will stand behind our products 100% in order to maintain
our good reputation in the marketplace.
Subsequently signed with contact info by our Chief Chemist.
To Whom It May Concern:
The various original equipment manufacturers will not void any product warranties if oil
drain intervals are to be extended as long as a rigorous maintenance program that
includes used oil analysis, close adherence to maintenance schedules and consistent
make-up oil additions are followed.
If there is any proven lubricant failure for any reason other than contamination of the
lubricant by antifreeze, water, dirt, etc. during usage or improper storage, Schaeffer
Manufacturing will take all steps necessary to see that the customer is adequately
reimbursed. Schaeffer Manufacturing maintains a fully staffed laboratory and technical
facility including three full time chemists that oversee the ISO 9000 Quality Assurance
program
Finally, in regards to product warranty Schaeffer Manufacturing Company will stand
behind all the oils, greases and diesel fuel additives we blend and compound. Schaeffer
Manufacturing is the oldest lubricant manufacturer in North America and has been in
business since 1839. Like any reputable company, Schaeffer Manufacturing carries
product liability insurance and will stand behind our products 100% in order to maintain
our good reputation in the marketplace.
Subsequently signed with contact info by our Chief Chemist.
You can not group all Mopar transmissions into one category!
THe 42 RE's in some of the trucks are more prone to problems and will wear out faster than the 46RE's.
The 545 RFE is a totally different animal and is considered to be one of the better automatics which have been developed in recent years.
Too many people on all these web boards extrapolate outdated data and make too many generalities. IE, the old A604's in the vans were very problematic, especially
the 90-94 flavor. So all DC trannies are bad.
Best bet is to change the fluid, use either the ATF+4 or ATF +3 depending on application or run the Amsoil.
Note, I have two freinds who are techs and service managers, they have never ever turned down a warranty claim on a tranny or engine, within the 7/70 power train warranty because of the fluid used in the engine or tranny. They also told me they have never bothered nor do they have time to determeine the type of fluid used. As my friend told me, 90% of the time when there is a trany failure, the people have never bothered to changed the tranny fluid.
In the case of the engine, they only check to see if there is oil in the engine and may ask questions if the stick shows the engine was drastically low. If that is the case when they open it up, they will investigate. Also if the customer is a good repeat customer, they are going to warranty it period! The number of failures are rare in his opinion, engines and manufacturing processes are very good these days. He commented that Honda seems to have the most issues with their transmissions these days, his group has a Honda and Acura store and he told me the Odyseys, Pilots and MDX's have a lot of issues with transmissions, many more than the Dodge or Jeep he servics in the last few years.
VNT
THe 42 RE's in some of the trucks are more prone to problems and will wear out faster than the 46RE's.
The 545 RFE is a totally different animal and is considered to be one of the better automatics which have been developed in recent years.
Too many people on all these web boards extrapolate outdated data and make too many generalities. IE, the old A604's in the vans were very problematic, especially
the 90-94 flavor. So all DC trannies are bad.
Best bet is to change the fluid, use either the ATF+4 or ATF +3 depending on application or run the Amsoil.
Note, I have two freinds who are techs and service managers, they have never ever turned down a warranty claim on a tranny or engine, within the 7/70 power train warranty because of the fluid used in the engine or tranny. They also told me they have never bothered nor do they have time to determeine the type of fluid used. As my friend told me, 90% of the time when there is a trany failure, the people have never bothered to changed the tranny fluid.
In the case of the engine, they only check to see if there is oil in the engine and may ask questions if the stick shows the engine was drastically low. If that is the case when they open it up, they will investigate. Also if the customer is a good repeat customer, they are going to warranty it period! The number of failures are rare in his opinion, engines and manufacturing processes are very good these days. He commented that Honda seems to have the most issues with their transmissions these days, his group has a Honda and Acura store and he told me the Odyseys, Pilots and MDX's have a lot of issues with transmissions, many more than the Dodge or Jeep he servics in the last few years.
VNT
VNT - guilty as charged. You make a great point. There are plenty of 46RE's out there running happily, and now 545RFE's with low/no complaints. Does the average joe/jane think about AT maintenance much? Start car, grab a gear and go.
When I used Amsoil "Universal" ATF in my '99 Dodge Caravan the transmission slipped like a SOB. Amsoil head office told me to add some additives to their "universal" fluid, that might work. They didn't recommend any partiucular additive, just try your luck. I tried the Lubegard additive and it did help to lessen the slipping. But any slipping is bad and I drained out the whole lot and put regular ATF+3 back in. No problems since, and that was 60,000 miles back. I flush every 20,000 miles. Have used both Quaker State and Castrol.
There is no such product as "Universal" ATF. How can one fluid have different characteristics when it is poured into different transmissions? Doh!
If the manufacturer calls for ATF+4, that's what you need to use. Get it from the DC dealer, or look at the Redline and Schaeffers compatible products if you trust them.
SCAM ALERT - don't even think about using Universal fluid, no matter who makes it. You might get lucky, but that's a heck of an expensive risk and with no good reason.
There is no such product as "Universal" ATF. How can one fluid have different characteristics when it is poured into different transmissions? Doh!
If the manufacturer calls for ATF+4, that's what you need to use. Get it from the DC dealer, or look at the Redline and Schaeffers compatible products if you trust them.
SCAM ALERT - don't even think about using Universal fluid, no matter who makes it. You might get lucky, but that's a heck of an expensive risk and with no good reason.
Here in the Richmond, VA area ATF+4 is $4.35 per quart (at Petersburg and Mechanicsville Dodge dealers) which is cheaper than Amsoil Universal anyway, so why take a chance. Not implying Amsoil makes bad products but for Chrysler I would use only ATF+4. BTW I used Amsoil in the Jeep Cherokee with good results (trans called for Dexron 3).
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