Is ATF+3 a Group-I fluid? How about the ATF+4...I think maybe a Group-II/III blend. What is Mercon-V? I have a Stratus that needs an ATF change. It calls for ATF+3, but a trans shop here said Mercon-V with the Red bottle of Lubeguard works best, as it is a synthetic blend. He recommended Castrol ATF. I thought ATF+3 was a synthetic blend by nature, but I may be wrong. The car gets driven hard at times and sees higher speeds at higher rpm's for extended periods. That is why I am interested in a synthetic blend ATF. I checked on getting ATF+4 from three dealers...but it is between $9-12/qt!! I would like the redline C+ ATF, as suggested from searching posts, but again it is $8.50/qt here. I do like the prices of the Castrol Mercon-V at $3.27/qt, and ATF+3 is $1.98(store brand)-$3.47 name brand. My last Stratus had MaxLife ATF installed at a ValvIOC...didn't work well. It shifted erratic, grabbed gears too soon, etc. I have been a big 'only use' ATF+3 or +4 since that experience. But a very respected trans shop said the Mercon-V syn blend has done exceptional in chrysler applications, especially in dodge transmissions used for towing. I installed Lucas Trans additive in the last Stratus, and it seemed to work well. Fluid temps were ~40'F cooler! Any thoughts? Advice please?
ATF+3/+4 Group I? Mercon-V Group III? Help, please.
- Thread starter DSteven
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MolaKule
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Not sure what you're asking.
Is you car a Dodge Stratus that requires ATF+3?
If so, try the Redline C+. It's still cheaper than the Stealership prices and full synthetic.
Is you car a Dodge Stratus that requires ATF+3?
If so, try the Redline C+. It's still cheaper than the Stealership prices and full synthetic.
DSteven,
Go to allpar.com and study the forums there for some good info on Chrysler transmissions.
It is my experience that a lot of Chrysler transmission problems are the result of incorrect fluids (happened to me twice). Chrysler transmissions are VERY picky about having the correct fluid. At the allpar site you will find that the Lubegard concoction is not recommended nor are the "universal" fluids.
In Michigan, Murray's sells ATF+4 at about $5.50 a quart.
I believe in this case it is in the best interest of your $1,000+ transmission to use the recommended fluid.
Go to allpar.com and study the forums there for some good info on Chrysler transmissions.
It is my experience that a lot of Chrysler transmission problems are the result of incorrect fluids (happened to me twice). Chrysler transmissions are VERY picky about having the correct fluid. At the allpar site you will find that the Lubegard concoction is not recommended nor are the "universal" fluids.
In Michigan, Murray's sells ATF+4 at about $5.50 a quart.
I believe in this case it is in the best interest of your $1,000+ transmission to use the recommended fluid.
Thanks for the help. Wow, $5.50/qt for ATF+4 is a good deal. I will check some other stores to see if it can be ordered or acquired. I was told using ATF+4 in a trans recommending ATF+3 can cause some seal leaks and the like...is that so? Advance Autos in Sioux Falls, SD just started stocking RedLine oils for $7.98/qt and they can order RL ATF, but it comes at a cost and quanity that becomes more money (est.~$9+/qt) than I really desire to spend for that vehicle.
--MolaKule-
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was wondering if ATF+3, by the nature/specs of it, is a Group 1,2,3 or blend base stock oil. Then what is ATF+4. And I read that the Mercon-V is a synthetic blend, but not sure if it is a Group 1,2,3,etc blend. Does Valvoline MaxLife ATF have more synthetic in it than even the Valv ATF+3? I basically was hoping to find an ATF with the higher quality base stocks. And I thought that ATF+3 was a syn blend trans oil, but I may stand corrected. Any information on these differences? Do you know much about the Lucas Trans Additive?
--MolaKule-
Sorry, I should have been more specific. I was wondering if ATF+3, by the nature/specs of it, is a Group 1,2,3 or blend base stock oil. Then what is ATF+4. And I read that the Mercon-V is a synthetic blend, but not sure if it is a Group 1,2,3,etc blend. Does Valvoline MaxLife ATF have more synthetic in it than even the Valv ATF+3? I basically was hoping to find an ATF with the higher quality base stocks. And I thought that ATF+3 was a syn blend trans oil, but I may stand corrected. Any information on these differences? Do you know much about the Lucas Trans Additive?
Yes, it is a Dodge Stratus V6 with a Chrysler 41TE 4spd auto trans. It says on the dipstick and manual ATF+3 is recommended.
LOL, and yet another. It is getting a Phantom Grip limited-slip differential installed in August. Maybe the Lucas Trans Additive will help with this??
IIRC, the Mercon V spec does not specify the base oil required. In general through, most are Group II/III blends. The only "true" syns for Mercon V apps are Redline D4 and Amsoil Universal.
If it were me, I'd run away from that trans shop! Use the recommended fluid and be done with it - especially in a Chrysler transmission!
If it were me, I'd run away from that trans shop! Use the recommended fluid and be done with it - especially in a Chrysler transmission!
In 1999 at the National Petrochemical & Refiners Association's annual conflab and drunken tribologists' get-together, Chevron issued a white paper, "The Synthetic Nature of Group III Base Oils" (Adobe Acrobat or Acrobat Reader required), which contained a list of upcoming and current products formulated with Group III base oils. Included were both Ford Mercon V and Chrysler ATF+4 fluids. ATF+3 was not mentioned.
[ July 09, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
[ July 09, 2004, 12:06 PM: Message edited by: Ray H ]
Penrite, which I don't believe is sold in the U.S.A.:
http://www.penrite.com.au/techbulletins/21_ATFSYNTHETIC.pdf
MolaKule
Staff member
The general specifications for ATF fluids don't specify the base oils, just the performance criteria that must be met. The exception is Allison.
So for most car and light truck ATF's the base fluid is additized and the fluid is tested. Most DexronIII and Ford Type-F fluids have heretofore used paraffininc Group I fluids. For the DexronIII(H) spec, the base fluid is NOT specified but most formulators and industry people agree that the base fluid must be at least Group II or higher.
With more stringent specifications coming out, combinations of Group II, III, IV, and V fluids will only be able to meet these specifications for thermal (oxidation) stability, longer fluid life, and viscosity targets.
[ July 09, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
So for most car and light truck ATF's the base fluid is additized and the fluid is tested. Most DexronIII and Ford Type-F fluids have heretofore used paraffininc Group I fluids. For the DexronIII(H) spec, the base fluid is NOT specified but most formulators and industry people agree that the base fluid must be at least Group II or higher.
With more stringent specifications coming out, combinations of Group II, III, IV, and V fluids will only be able to meet these specifications for thermal (oxidation) stability, longer fluid life, and viscosity targets.
[ July 09, 2004, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: MolaKule ]
The Schaeffers #204S Dexron III Supreme says it's made from "... a combination of high viscosity index severely solvent refined, severely hydrofinished 100% pure paraffin base oils and severely solvent PAO synthetic base fluids..." So I'm assuming that this is a major step up from your run of the mill Dexron III/Mercon ATF's. It sure works a lot better in my 2002 truck with the manual transmission that originally had Motorcraft Mercon in it. And I'm talking about changing out the Motorcraft Mercon @ 13,000 miles. So it wasn't worn out. And it was about half the price of Redline or Amsoil.
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