ATE Brake Job -- '96 Audi A4 (B5)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Joined
Jun 2, 2003
Messages
23,591
I did the brakes on my '96 A4 quattro last weekend. Here are a few pictures and some comments under each image:

DSCF3092s.jpg

Here are some of the tools, parts and supplies that I used.

DSCF3094s.jpg

After removing the caliper spring with flat pliers and after popping the covers off the guide pin bushings I unbolted the two guide pins (7 mm "Gary" Allen hex head). The guide pins could be pulled out with needle nose pliers and the caliper could then be pulled off the caliper carrier. The ABS sensor wire was removed from its clip on the caliper.

Mr Wan, please note where the outboard pads had been glued with the adhesive that came on the pads (peel&stick). The red stuff is residue from CRC antisqueal (silicone goop), which I used after once removing the brake pads and caliper to replace a torn piston boot two years ago. The newest version of the same ATE pads do not have the adhesive any more. Instead it is suggested to use nothing or anti squeal paste. I used 'Permatex Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant' on the contact surfaces of the pad backing plate and on the guide pins. We'll get to that later.

DSCF3095s.jpg

I needed to rebuild the calipers, because one had been a little sticky lately. A guide bushing had leaked and moisture and dirt had gotten in. I removed the piston, after pulling the pads off, by placing a piece of wood and a thick piece of silicone in the caliper and by pushing on the brake pedal until the piston slowly came out. If one were to be careless, the piston might launch into the neighbor's yard and kill the neighbor. Anyway, the piston came out clean, its boot preventing brake fluid from spilling. I removed the piston completely and drained the brake fluid in an oil change pan.

I had to remove the caliper carrier by unbolting the two large (17mm, I can never remember) caliper carrier bolts. They should be replaced each time and a caliper repair kit comes with new bolts anyway.

DSCF3098s.jpg

The outer layer of one brake hose was torn and I replaced the hoses on both sides. (11 mm flare wrench)

DSCF3099s.jpg

I removed the seal from the brake cylinder with the proper nylon wedge. I removed the old guide bushings and cleaned the caliper. I removed the bleeder screws and cleaned them too. They are now 11.5 years old, but in reasonably good shape. The bleeder screws' threads were greased with VW lithium grease and the screws were reinstalled. The pistons an caliper cylinders were cleaned (2000 grit followed by polishing paste, then cleaned again), greased with VW lithium brake parts grease. The piston boots were placed on the pistons and the boots and the pistons were installed. No brake caliper tool was required. I could push the pistons easily in all the way with very moderate pressure.

DSCF3105s.jpg

The above mentioned old bleeder screw.

DSCF3106s.jpg

Bleeder screw, bleeder screw hole and one of the newly installed guide bushings can be seen here.

DSCF3110s.jpg

I installed the caliper carrier with the two new bolts (125 Nm).

The hub was slightly greased with wheel bearing grease, the rotor was placed on the hub. After clipping the inboard pad into the brake piston ( and placing the outboard pad into the caliper carrier (Ceramic lube on interface carrier/backing plate), the caliper could be placed into position and bolted via the two guide pins (lubed with Ceramic lube) to the brake carrier (7 mm hex/25 Nm). The guide bushing covers were popped in.

Next I hooked up the brake line to the caliper and attached the ABS sensor wire to the clip on the caliper.

Next I bled the brakes, using a combination of pressure bleeder and pumping the pedal. No helper needed. Correct order is of course from the caliper farthest from master cylinder to nearest, so right rear, right left, right front and then left front (shown). The pressure bleeder was removed, brake fluid level was topped off.

The ATE rotors must not be cleaned. They come with a waxy coating that improves the bed-in process.

Wheels were attached and wheel bolts properly torqued (120 Nm).

The bedding in is done by avoiding hard breaking (Good luck!) for the first 125 miles.

The car was test-driven, system was checked for leaks, fluid was checked again. Done. Total cost: $200 for rotors and pads, ca $80 for rebuild kits, grease, lube and brake fluid (Castrol GT LMA DOT4).
 
Oops, forgot to include the new brake hoses in the tally. I'd have to look up what I paid for them. Maybe $30 for each.
 
All pictures but the last three were taken by Ms Mori. She decided to intermittently leave to tend to more interesting activities. That's why some steps aren't illustrated in detail. Darn wimmen!
 
The elliptical slots are primarily a wear indicator (My Audi has no audible wear indicators or wear sensors). The discs are worn when the slots disappear. At this time the pads are almost worn, too. Pads and rotors are always due at the same time, which is convenient. Usually they can be expected to last over 50k miles, but with mostly city driving, our steep hills and my driving style, I get only about 35k miles out of them these days. The rear rotors and pads last twice as long as the fronts.

The slots also aid not only in evacuating water from the rotor, but also provide and escape route for gassing out hot brake pads. I have never had an issue with the slotted ATE rotors and pads. The pads produce vast quantities of black dust, but my car isn't vain!
wink.gif
 
I just did the fronts on my Uncle's Odyssey a couple of weeks ago so most looks familiar (no slotted rotors though). I have the same Metrinch set! Works great.
 
Mori,

Without a doubt, the best tutorial on doing a brake job that I've seen, and IMHO the best post you have done. I will put this in my file.

Thanks for sharing.
 
Thanks for the flowers, but I much prefer writing snippy and sarcastic commentary. My spelling errors and typos will give me nightmares for the next few days.

spankme2.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Tempest
I I have the same Metrinch set!

Better check if it's not actually your set.
48.gif

I've had that set longer than the Audi. I bought that set when I had the Buick, because that car was held together with an insane medley of standard and metric bolts and nuts.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
I notice my hoses have the beginnings of the full blown cracks you have. Next summer, new hoses!

A cracked, leaky hose can be really irritating.
LOL.gif
 
Quote:
Mr Wan, please note where the outboard pads had been glued with the adhesive that came on the pads (peel&stick). The red stuff is residue from CRC antisqueal (silicone goop), which I used after once removing the brake pads and caliper to replace a torn piston boot two years ago. The newest version of the same ATE pads do not have the adhesive any more. Instead it is suggested to use nothing or anti squeal paste. I used 'Permatex Ceramic Extreme Brake Parts Lubricant' on the contact surfaces of the pad backing plate and on the guide pins. We'll get to that later.

I see.

Quote:
The bedding in is done by avoiding hard breaking (Good luck!) for the first 125 miles.

No, this is the correct bed in process. I've found that this method greatly improves braking performance:

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm
 
Wan, I go with the recommended ATE procedure for ATE pads and rotors, which has worked perfectly for me for many years. You do what you want with whatever equipment you use.

ate.jpg
 
ATE's position on pad burnishing is likely due to the potential liabilities of endorsing an aggressive bed-in procedure. Mechanics or shadetree mechanics may not follow the procedure completely and may damage the brake system.

If done properly, the bed-in procedure that I outlined will greatly improve the performance of your brakes. :)
 
Certain wisenheimers with very little practical experience (if any) should call ATE and inform themselves: Tel: 01149 69 7603-1

Not sure what bed-in procedure YOU outlined, the link goes to a write-up by a Dave Zeckenhausen. If that commercial website isn't a BITOG sponsor I believe you have to remove the link, amigo.
wink.gif
 
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Certain wisenheimers with very little practical experience (if any) should call ATE and inform themselves: Tel: 01149 69 7603-1

Not sure what bed-in procedure YOU outlined, the link goes to a write-up by a Dave Zeckenhausen. If that commercial website isn't a BITOG sponsor I believe you have to remove the link, amigo.
wink.gif


Actually, StopTech wrote it.

But I can definitely vouch for its effectiveness. I've used it on the Saturn and it has improved braking performance.
 
Back in the early 1970s, when they were racing 400hp V-8 Toranas weighing 1050Kg with 10" solid front disks and 11" rear drums, the Torana teams needed to do a pad change mid way in the Bathurst 1000.

The best teams found that they had best results machining a cast iron flywheel down the the desired thickness, heating it to a dull red heat, and clamping the pads to the heated cast iron using a standard caliper and a hydraulic pump to maintain the pressure.

When the "ash" lines had progressed from the friction surface to between an 8th and 1/4 inch from the friction surface, the pads were deemed "bedded".

It made as much sense as pre bedding pads before the race and then fitting them to race worn disks.

please not mori that using this technique, the disks lasted for two sets of pads, albeit for 1,000km.

I'd like to see both you and the Critic try this technique next time, as I'm sure that in will provide unparalleled results.

BTW great write-up and photos. Your grass maintenance area seems to be lacking grass however.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top