ARX Treatment Noise

[Winston]

I have completed the initial 1500 mile ARX phase for my 1995 Mitsu Montero with 150,000 miles on it. After changing out that oil and putting in fresh Chevron Supreme 10W30 (SM). I pulled my 2500lb tent trailer for 200 miles. The next morning I went to start the car and got the noisiest start I have ever heard. Lots of lifter noise and other clanking. Since then, other starts have not produced much noise. Maybe that 200 mile trip did dislodge a bunch of crud?

I have not noticed many changes in driveability (the truck has always run great). I put in ARX to help with oil consumption (up to approx. 1 qt per 1500 miles). During the initial phase the truck only consumed 1/2 qt over the 1500 mile period. The MPG was very good on the last tank (19.8mpg) which is the best I have had for quite some time. Usually I get between 18 and 19.5. The engine "seems" smoother and it actually seems to have a bit more power. However, I think those last two improvements are imaginary.

I will cut up the filter soon.

 

[Frank]

The noise your hearing is "clean" metal getting oil for the first time after application with Auto-Rx don't worry Auto-Rx causes no harm and noises will be gone before or right after rinse phase.

 

[Winston]

Thanks for the response Frank. I am not that worried, but I do not understand why the "Clean" metal would make noise.

 

[Alex P.]

Hasn't yet had its newly-cleaned surface filmed yet?

 

[JHZR2]

yeah, honestly, I think this is a less than optimal response. I'm sure there is more to it than that.

I'd venture to guess that flow pattern changes in the engine cause lubrication to cease to certain areas and begin to others, causing high flow and low flow areas, causing the noise.

I agree that if there is a lot of junk to clean, that the noises will go away when the cleaning and flushing is all done.

JMH

 

[97tbird]

if the noise is "clean" metal getting oil for the 1st time, that means: the "dirty" metal, which did NOT get oil earlier, was silent. Why would dirty, NON-lubricated metal withOUT oil be quiet, and clean, LUBRICATED metal noisy?
I didn't know that a non-lubricated engine (or engine parts) can be quieter...

 

[bruce381]

quote:

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Originally posted by 97tbird:
if the noise is "clean" metal getting oil for the 1st time, that means: the "dirty" metal, which did NOT get oil earlier, was silent. Why would dirty, NON-lubricated metal withOUT oil be quiet, and clean, LUBRICATED metal noisy?
I didn't know that a non-lubricated engine (or engine parts) can be quieter...

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Agree.. ALL wear areas in an engine are "clean" the constant slideing keeps it clean the area's that could be cleaned to new, are areas that DO NOT have slideing/rubbing areas. The RX may clean everything but any sliding/rubbing bearing etc is already clean due to motion, The RX may open up cause "chunks" of varnish and sludge to move aroung and can clog drian holes and impact seals untill fully cleaned out.
bruce

 

[Gary Allan]

What I believe happens is that some passages open before others. So where you had a pressure/drainage balance ..the outlet of the given mechanism probably drains more easily than before ..but the supply is not cleaned out enough to restore the former "balanced" pressure/drainage.

You've got a complex flow circuit there. It's kinda been proven ..or rather "typically reported".. that lifter noise is a side effect of the cleaning. It also passes with time in most cases.

 

[Ugly3]

quote:

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Originally posted by Gary Allan:
What I believe happens is that some passages open before others. So where you had a pressure/drainage balance ..the outlet of the given mechanism probably drains more easily than before ..but the supply is not cleaned out enough to restore the former "balanced" pressure/drainage.

You've got a complex flow circuit there. It's kinda been proven ..or rather "typically reported".. that lifter noise is a side effect of the cleaning. It also passes with time in most cases.

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Boy, I can vouch for that. I am in the clean phase on a 1997 Buick 3100 (new intake gaskets). The engine has run synthetic all it's life and never made a sound, lifter or otherwise. Now 900 miles into the clean phase I am getting a pronounced lifter tick while the engine is cool, once warm the tick is gone. We'll see what the rinse phase has in store.

 

[kc8adu]

it makes more sense to me that your antidrainback in your filter is bad/sticking.
a friend had a 3.0 mitsubishi in a caravan that would make a terrible racket on cold start if a fram filter was used.tried 2 new ones.tried a st and no more noise.
otoh a lifter noise on hot restart in a roller cam sbc here was cured in 300mi with arx.it got loud intermittantly as crud was loosened and removed.now near the 1500mi mark and no more unusual noises.

 

[Terry]

It is not uncommon for a high mileage engine to demonstrate a noisy cold start after a long highway pull. The internal components like the combustion chambers are cleaner than normal.In this case I suspect the oil filter is the main cause. Injectors can even be louder after a pull like that depending on cleanliness and condition.


In nearly 5 years of testing I have not observed Auto-RX causing increased wear or noise. It solublizes and disperses so well that the oil filter would be the suspect not deposits blocking anything. I have never observed Auto-RX chunk or allow harmful debris to move without being safely dispersed in a protective lubricous micelle. Combine that with its slow safe cleaning and it really stands apart from any other product out there. However the oil filter can be loaded up rather rapidly.

As far as areas being coated with carbon deposits being more quiet, that is possible because deposits DO absorb sound. They also hold heat !

Upper portions of pistons,ring grooves and the rings of that mitsu engine definitely are seeing deep cleaning, especially the oil control rings so Bruces is correct in theory but to take that a bit farther, in actual testing of engines there are large deposits close but not at the contact area of the cylinder and ring contact points. Remember that the ring also makes contact in the ring groove and its ability to expand is critical to good compression and oil control.

Another cause of noise in engines we see is piston tops cleaning or carbon/fuel soot loading at different rates and that will unbalance light weight pistons, especially noticeable in GM engines ( mistaken as slap) , the carbon on the top of the piston needs a fuel additive to clean that off.


Terry

 

[Rick20]

On a high mileage motor such as this as much or more deposits will reach the filter media as during the initial clean phase. What does the rinse oil look like after the short haul with the trailer. This will tell you alot, determining whether a second application is warranted.

 

[Winston]

Thanks for all the input. Again, the noise does not "worry" me, it was just a set of interesting circumstances that surrounded it. Following and ARX cleaning phase with fresh oil and a few hours of elevated oil temps. (I guess I should not have used such and "inflamatory" thread title) Since that day the starts have been uneventfull. A bit of lifter tick for a second or two only.

Terry mentioned that it might just be due to the long "pull". I will be taking the trailer out again for a fairly long trip, so I will pay attention when I start the car the next day.

As far as the filter, it is a Purolator Premium Plus. I got a couple on sale, and thought it would be a good, reasonably priced filter to use for this rinsing phase. Are you recommending that I change it now? I have only 500miles on this oil now.

BTW I cut up the "cleaning" phase filter last night. Not much dirt visible on the media. However, if I rubbed my finger deep in a pleat I was able to observe a few small black chunks on my finger. These few chunks appeared on every pleat I rubbed my finger on.

Oh, I found a new way to disassemble filters. I just hammered on can next to the base. After doing this on about 75% of the circumference the base just fell off. It was a Bosch filter (that I got for free with an air filter purchase) that was the old style that had the "plunger" type relief valve. Everything about it looked good, nice soft orange ADBV valve, quite a few pleats.

As far as the appearance of the oil. I checked it when I filled my gas tank. I had about 300 miles on the oil. It looked almost new, just a tinge of darkening.

 

[JAYCEE]

I used to own a mitsubishi eclipse. I think mitsubishi engines are supposed to make funny sounds.

 

[Winston]

quote:

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I used to own a mitsubishi eclipse. I think mitsubishi engines are supposed to make funny sounds.

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Aaahhh. There is the Mitsubishi bash. I am afraid to admit, but I am on my third Montero (90, 95, 03) and all have been incredibly reliable and cheap to maintain. Maybe it is because they are still assembled in Japan?