Are the new vehicles as good as...

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charbaby

charbaby

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...the vehicles that they're replacing?
What I mean is that, we've all read that the new Accord is better than the outgoing model and the new Mazda6 is also better than the outgoing model but, what about other cars/trucks/minivans/CUV's ?

I have read that the current Toyota Sienna and Honda Odyssey are not as good as the vehicles that they replaced but, still the better Mini Van choices.

And we've all heard/read what a disapointment the Civic was til Honda went back(again) to the drawing board so, how is the Civic NOW?.
Nissan Versa also went backward instead of forward.

How about the others coming to market such as the 2013 Altima and '13 Malibu? Are these as good as the models they replaced?

I trust that the new Impala is going to be a winner!
How about the new PU Trucks?

Please add your picks for this years as winners/losers(which vehicles are improved...or not) compared to the vehicles that they are replacing
smile.gif


These don't have to be for the 2013-14 vehicles but, should be current models compared to the models they replaced.

This could be fun!
 
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Are they getting heavier and more complicated (electronics wise)?

Do not want.
 
There appears to be growing credibility to those that do not buy fully-loaded or expensive cars due to "more things that can go wrong."

We also see cars growing so much in size and weight that they simply are not as fun as before. Look at the new Pathfinder: A magazine made an article "It's official, we are all wusses now" (as it is now a car-based SUV.)

Other advice has always been "Do not buy the first model year of a vehicle" and "try to buy the last model year of a vehicle" (in hopes of fresh new bugs/all bugs worked out.)

That said, I feel underwhelmed by almost every new car that comes out, save for the Subaru BR-Z (I like it more than FR-S? Still not clear on the difference.)

Went to NAIAS 12 and 13.. Audi and Porsche look basically the same as they did 10 years ago IMHO, even VW, somewhat..
 
Originally Posted By: eljefino
Are they getting heavier and more complicated (electronics wise)?

Do not want.


Isn't that a given? When the time comes to replace the Focus, I really hope Nissan is still making the Versa with roll up windows, manual locks and manual trans.
 
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I was disappointed to find the new Accord does not have wishbones in the front.

Yes but, only traditionaly as the new susspension is better damped and just as eager to corner/handle as any of the previous models.
Or is it?

Look at all of the cars in the Accord's class that had more conventional susspension setups and cornered/handled as well or better than the Accord. With a more compliant ride and quieter interior to boot!

Or am I wrong?
laugh.gif
 
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Originally Posted By: Char Baby
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
I was disappointed to find the new Accord does not have wishbones in the front.

Yes but, only traditionaly as the new susspension is better damped and just as eager to corner/handle as any of the previous models.
Or is it?

Look at all of the cars in the Accord's class that had more conventional susspension setups and cornered/handled as well or better than the Accord. With a more compliant ride and quieter interior to boot!

Or am I wrong?
laugh.gif

Replacing shocks is a lot easier and cheaper than struts. Some good aftermarket stuff out there for the wishbone Accords.
 
A lot of people are crowing today about how good Toyota and Honda from the '90's are built better than they are today. Well, in the '90's I remember people crowing then about how the '80's models were better built, and the '90's would never last as long.

I've also heard 30 years of how American quality has caught up with the Japanese, that the problems you (meaning my dad) had with your Buick are a thing of the past. However, my early '90's Acura Vigor has outlasted his mid '90's Buick Park Avenue.

My advice: buy an electric or hybrid car today. I'll guarantee you in 10 years they won't be building those the way they are today.
 
Originally Posted By: spackard

My advice: buy an electric or hybrid car today. I'll guarantee you in 10 years they won't be building those the way they are today.



Pretty good idea. You know that's the department where all the A-team engineers work today.
 
The new Accord is excellent and the reviews reflect that (Mazda 6, too). Both are unquestionably better than the models they replace. From the Accord perspective I say this as a former 7th gen (2007) and 8th gen (2010) Accord owner and having driven the new one (in addition to studying reviews). I felt the 2010 was a downgrade from the 2007 but the 2013 is back in spades, punching above its weight. From an engineering perspective I was sad to see the DWB setup be replaced but both objective data and subjective accounts show that there's no sacrifice whatsoever (and again I've driven both setups).

The Civic's reliability and durability was never in question as the powertrain was/is the same. It was a step back in terms of refinement which basically caused a comprehensive, accelerated MMC, not a back-to-the-drawing-board effort.

I think in most cases the newer vehicles are appreciated as upgrades (the only one I really read terrible things about was the new Malibu) so the question is not necessarily if they're better than what they replace it's did they do enough to keep it better than the competition and THAT is where several fall short.
 
Originally Posted By: TechnoLoGs


Other advice has always been "Do not buy the first model year of a vehicle" and "try to buy the last model year of a vehicle" (in hopes of fresh new bugs/all bugs worked out.)


That's definitely a lesson I learned the hard way with a 2000 Focus.
 
The current-gen Fit is a better car than its predecessor. It's larger, comfier, holds more, and still gets the same fuel economy. It goes without saying that the Cruze is lightyears ahead of the Cobalt in every way, and a competitive car in the compact class.

I've heard quite a bit of "get the less loaded version since it's better sorted" lately. There's been some truth to that, since some optioned-up cars have had more problems than their more basic counterparts. Like MyFordTouch vs. Sync.
 
I am not at all sure the mechanicals are better today than yesterday.

Materials today are engineered to fail. Case in point, European cars here in South Florida. The plastics and rubbers deteriorate at fantastic rates. My car has suspension bushings that are simply evaporating! The AC ducts are blowing out gooey chunks of foam rubber. The interior plastics are crumbling and cracking. The wheel well liners are simply crumbling as if they were made from pressed oatmeal that got wet.

Sorry, but we never saw this level of deterioration from the 80's and 90's American cars.

As far as engine quality goes, new engines are better. They have to be very precise to meet stringent EPA requirements.

Transmission quality is another story.
 
The complexity and things they do to pass emissions (diesel) lead me to believe current vehicles will not be as good of overall quality or cost of ownership.

They all have shareholders who want to see profits. This does not come by selling a person a Camry every 20 years. Nor does it come by using the absolute best materials for everything and eating the cost.

Some "old" designs that i would love to buy brand new today:
2003 Jetta TDI 5 speed
1998 Toyota T100 OR 1998 Cummins 12 valve ex cab short bed 4x4.
 
IMHO, I think the cars will initially be better for the first 5 years and then the technology problems will crop up. When cars had older and less complicated engines, they didn't work as hard and loped along. Car engines today seem so small in comparison, but with direct injection and turbos going into a lot of them now, I would be leary of buying them used 8 years from now. Especially with lazy maintenance schedules of previous owners. Galvanized bodies help with rust, but the metal is thinner all the time it seems. I guess the weight comes from the boatload of plastics in them nowadays?
 
Originally Posted By: Cujet
I am not at all sure the mechanicals are better today than yesterday.

Materials today are engineered to fail. Case in point, European cars here in South Florida. The plastics and rubbers deteriorate at fantastic rates. My car has suspension bushings that are simply evaporating! The AC ducts are blowing out gooey chunks of foam rubber. The interior plastics are crumbling and cracking. The wheel well liners are simply crumbling as if they were made from pressed oatmeal that got wet.

Sorry, but we never saw this level of deterioration from the 80's and 90's American cars.

As far as engine quality goes, new engines are better. They have to be very precise to meet stringent EPA requirements.

Transmission quality is another story.


Planned obsolescence.

We can make an engine capable of running 500,000 miles. If the engine can go 500,000 miles, the body doesn't rust ... then we need a 10 speed automatic transmission that costs $10k to replace and will fail anywhere between 100 and 150k miles.
 
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So, how is the new 2013 Civic(REDO) compared to the, just recently redesigned & introduced 2011 Civic that received much criticism from the PRESS?
*Is it much better?
*Does it now compete with cars in it's catigory?

I've read, that no car company in the last 50 years has, introduced a newly/redesigned vehicle, gotten criticised, and then, gone back to re-redisign a vehicle to make it better. Most companies just leave it alone til the next redesign time.
 
Originally Posted By: Char Baby
So, how is the new 2013 Civic(REDO) compared to the, just recently redesigned & introduced 2011 Civic that received much criticism from the PRESS?
*Is it much better?
*Does it now compete with cars in it's catigory?

I've read, that no car company in the last 50 years has, introduced a newly/redesigned vehicle, gotten criticised, and then, gone back to re-redisign a vehicle to make it better. Most companies just leave it alone til the next redesign time.


I want to chime in on this just with my own opinion only.
I have seen and sat in both 2012 and 2013 Civics.
There is really no difference in the core vehicle. The materials improved in the 2013 and the interior I think is a nice place to be. The exterior is nothing but a hack job, added a faux light bar thing on the trunk and some stupid trim. Not good enough in my eyes. The car is good for what it is and the part you see the most (interior) is nice, IMO. But, it`s just not a great overall package anymore, and really a shame. I would not personally buy a 2013 Civic. A 2013 Accord on the other hand.. Yes please.

By the way the 2012 was the redesign. The 2011 (like mine) is the previous generation. (Which I like a lot more)
 
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