Are snow tires needed for SE Michigan winters?

[Sequoiasoon]

I run 4 snows on both vehicles. Toyota Sequoia with Altimax Arctic, Hyundai Sonata currently Blizzak WS-80.

My neighbors kids go to same college upstate NY. Drive same car (Chevy Cruz) one stick one auto. Daughter got 4 WinterForce on hers after some really bad experience with her A/S. Brother said no need as he is better driver with more experience.

She had to come pick him from class and work on multiple occasions as he was stuck in parking lots etc. Last was when he slid off road into ditch (no damage). He is now "considering" if he should get some.

He drove my Sonata and noted how much quieter my Blizzaks seemed to be then her winterforce. Same scenario for Altimax though louder than blizzak.

One successful accident avoidance covers my tires. Non white knuckle driving is much nicer in daily driver.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon
I run 4 snows on both vehicles. Toyota Sequoia with Altimax Arctic, Hyundai Sonata currently Blizzak WS-80.

My neighbors kids go to same college upstate NY. Drive same car (Chevy Cruz) one stick one auto. Daughter got 4 WinterForce on hers after some really bad experience with her A/S. Brother said no need as he is better driver with more experience.

She had to come pick him from class and work on multiple occasions as he was stuck in parking lots etc. Last was when he slid off road into ditch (no damage). He is now "considering" if he should get some.

He drove my Sonata and noted how much quieter my Blizzaks seemed to be then her winterforce. Same scenario for Altimax though louder than blizzak.

One successful accident avoidance covers my tires. Non white knuckle driving is much nicer in daily driver.

What happened with brother? Driving skills deteriorated

 

[Sequoiasoon]

Originally Posted By: edyvw

What happened with brother? Driving skills deteriorated

Reality check embarrassment of needing to get rescued by little sister caught up to his ego.

side note: the tire shop she got her winterforce at swapped left/right rears so tread was backwards. I pointed it out to her. She called shop, cursed them out (5 hours away) got the jack and jack stands and fixed it herself.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Friend of mine got in another significant wreck with his car ... due to can't afford snow tires. Last time his insurance deductible would have bought a nice set of winterforce, and EASILY bought a set of GT Radial or Imperial snow tires. This one was another pretty good one and may have totaled out the car.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Sequoiasoon

side note: the tire shop she got her winterforce at swapped left/right rears so tread was backwards. I pointed it out to her. She called shop, cursed them out (5 hours away) got the jack and jack stands and fixed it herself.


At least they mounted two lefty, two righty.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Last time his insurance deductible would have bought a nice set of winterforce,


Where is this mythical "nice set" of Winterforce? Is it in a size that only shoes unicorns?

 

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Friend of mine got in another significant wreck with his car ... due to can't afford snow tires. Last time his insurance deductible would have bought a nice set of winterforce, and EASILY bought a set of GT Radial or Imperial snow tires. This one was another pretty good one and may have totaled out the car.



At this point, my attitude is this. If someone "can't afford" snow tires, then they can't afford the car they're driving. And if it's already the cheapest car they could drive, then maybe they just can't afford a car at all...

 

[SwampSurvivor]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Friend of mine got in another significant wreck with his car ... due to can't afford snow tires. Last time his insurance deductible would have bought a nice set of winterforce, and EASILY bought a set of GT Radial or Imperial snow tires. This one was another pretty good one and may have totaled out the car.



At this point, my attitude is this. If someone "can't afford" snow tires, then they can't afford the car they're driving. And if it's already the cheapest car they could drive, then maybe they just can't afford a car at all...


I would tend to agree with you. 2 $500 insurance deductibles, raised insurance rates ...


Originally Posted By: eljefino
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Last time his insurance deductible would have bought a nice set of winterforce,


Where is this mythical "nice set" of Winterforce? Is it in a size that only shoes unicorns?

Nice being a used set from CL without too much wear on them yet Not nice as in a good tire haha.

I'll be honest, I didn't realize how bad they were with slush. Never had a problem going or stopping but man , they really got caught in the slush. These cheap GT Radials ... handle slush like the car weights 10,000 pounds.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Miller88
Friend of mine got in another significant wreck with his car ... due to can't afford snow tires. Last time his insurance deductible would have bought a nice set of winterforce, and EASILY bought a set of GT Radial or Imperial snow tires. This one was another pretty good one and may have totaled out the car.



What makes you think that winter tires would have changed outcome? Good drivers who use winter tires or all-season tires drive very carefully in winter conditions. Bad drivers tend to overdrive their capabilities and tires, the difference with winter tires is that you are going considerably faster before you realize you are out of control.

No accidents here in 25 years driving with majority of time on New England roads with all-seasons. Same with wife who has an amazing winter driving abilities as she is so calm no matter the conditions.

 

[SwampSurvivor]

I have to say how impressed i am with these GT Radial snow tires. Excellent value. Once this first winter is over I'll have to create a review.

Decided to go riding around the University area of Syracuse last night. Usually it's not plowed since most people there walk to campus. And it's hilly.

Got behind a superior driver (no snow tires) in a Grand Cherokee (WJ model). Came to one of the hills and I stopped at the bottom and watched the Grand Cherokee struggle to get up. There was a plow truck behind me.

I think the guy in the plow truck thought he was going to have to help tow me up. I started out in first gear, killed the traction control and made it up in 1/4 of the time of the Grand cherokee without even trying. Obviously the plow truck had no problem.

I did have to admit defeat. I was trying for one hill - the one that got my Jeep last year - and almost made it up. It was 8'' of unplowed snow wit ha few wheel tracks. Almost at the top there was someone walking down the road even though the sidewalks were shoveled. Ended up catching a bit of a snow drift and had to stop because there was a bunch of garbage cans in the road.


Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: Miller88
Friend of mine got in another significant wreck with his car ... due to can't afford snow tires. Last time his insurance deductible would have bought a nice set of winterforce, and EASILY bought a set of GT Radial or Imperial snow tires. This one was another pretty good one and may have totaled out the car.



What makes you think that winter tires would have changed outcome? Good drivers who use winter tires or all-season tires drive very carefully in winter conditions. Bad drivers tend to overdrive their capabilities and tires, the difference with winter tires is that you are going considerably faster before you realize you are out of control.

No accidents here in 25 years driving with majority of time on New England roads with all-seasons. Same with wife who has an amazing winter driving abilities as she is so calm no matter the conditions.


Not everyone wants to idle along at 1mph with 4 ways on as an alternative.

 

[Andrew1972]

Originally Posted By: Miller88


Not everyone wants to idle along at 1mph with 4 ways on as an alternative.


She doesn't and nor I are we are not scared of winter conditions and tend not to use brakes or excess speed which is what gets you in trouble.

I get the need to justify the expense and slight hassle with the winter wheels etc here.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: madRiver
Originally Posted By: Miller88


Not everyone wants to idle along at 1mph with 4 ways on as an alternative.


She doesn't and nor I are we are not scared of winter conditions and tend not to use brakes or excess speed which is what gets you in trouble.

I get the need to justify the expense and slight hassle with the winter wheels etc here.

What si excess speed? Creating traffic 5 miles behind and potential situation where someone is going to hit someone and create chain reaction?
Does your car with all season stop better then mine with snow tires at 15mph passing by the school? I bet it does, because you have uber, super, above natural driving capabilities.

 

[crj19]

Not sure where you are in SE Michigan that gets only 5 days of snow a season? I commute to Troy MI from White Lake and we have had 5 days of snow in the last 2 weeks.

 

[MNgopher]

Love how one persons experience with no issues for 25 years and not ever trying snow/winter tires is supposed to outweigh those who have actually tried them and convince someone they really don't need snow tires...

I once thought that way - I got by on all season tires for years. One bad set of all seasons, and I tried a set of snows. Haven't looked back. All my vehicles, including my 4WD pickup and 4WD Explorer get snow tires.

Should tell you something...

 

[supton]

Originally Posted By: Dominic
When you buy winter tires you are buying an extra set of rubber that will extend the life of your other tires you aren't using in the winter. If you run a set of winter tires for 4 months per year and drive 1,000 miles per month like the average car owner, you can easily go 3-4 years on one set of winter tires (12-16k miles), and at least 5 years on the all-season tires (40k miles).


I usually put them on around Thanksgiving, and take off around April. So a good 5 months. I drive upwards of 30k/year, so at best I get 2 years out of a snow tire.

Ideally I'd just run one vehicle with snows and one without.

 

[Astro14]

Originally Posted By: MNgopher
Love how one persons experience with no issues for 25 years and not ever trying snow/winter tires is supposed to outweigh those who have actually tried them and convince someone they really don't need snow tires...

I once thought that way - I got by on all season tires for years. One bad set of all seasons, and I tried a set of snows. Haven't looked back. All my vehicles, including my 4WD pickup and 4WD Explorer get snow tires.

Should tell you something...


Yeah...the logic is: with a sample size of zero, I can draw a firm conclusion...

Tells me a lot.

My now ex-wife used to ascribe to the "I have a 4WD, so I don't need snow tires" school of thought, bolstered by the "I grew up in Vermont, so I know how to drive" syllogism.

Then one day, an icy wintry mix in Stowe, VT, she slid all the way down our road to Rte 100...ABS chattering all the way as the Ford Expedition went faster and faster, unable to grip the road with its all terrain tires. She barely made it, and nearly wrecked as she slid out onto 100.

I had no problems that same morning in my RWD Volvo 240 SW equipped with 4 Nokian Hakkapelliittas.

So, the Expedition got 4 Bridgestone truck snow tires (DMZ-something).

Same road on which the Subies all wrecked by the way, the victims of the limited snow/ice traction provided by their all season tires.

Traction matters.

And true winter tires have up to TWICE the snow/ice traction of all season (or all terrain) tires. That's not a minor difference. That's a phenomenal difference that has to be experienced to be believed.

 

[edyvw]

Apparently no one knows how to drive in DC area.

 

[eljefino]

Originally Posted By: edyvw
Apparently no one knows how to drive in DC area.


I've figured for a while now that a mob of drivers can absorb 10% idiots. If we see one car struggling up a hill b/c of crummy traction, the rest of us can accomodate, look out, etc.

When it grows to about 30%, it's an overload, and things spiral out of control.

DC likely has 30%. I'm not slamming them, just saying, stay home. Best defense is no be there. -- Mr. Miyagi.

 

[rslifkin]

Originally Posted By: eljefino
I've figured for a while now that a mob of drivers can absorb 10% idiots. If we see one car struggling up a hill b/c of crummy traction, the rest of us can accomodate, look out, etc.

When it grows to about 30%, it's an overload, and things spiral out of control.

DC likely has 30%. I'm not slamming them, just saying, stay home. Best defense is no be there. -- Mr. Miyagi.


This, right here, is exactly why I'd rather drive in a foot of snow, mid-blizzard with almost zero visibility than in 2 inches of snow. There's less other cars around when it gets really bad out, so not nearly as many idiots to deal with.

 

[edyvw]

Originally Posted By: rslifkin
Originally Posted By: eljefino
I've figured for a while now that a mob of drivers can absorb 10% idiots. If we see one car struggling up a hill b/c of crummy traction, the rest of us can accomodate, look out, etc.

When it grows to about 30%, it's an overload, and things spiral out of control.

DC likely has 30%. I'm not slamming them, just saying, stay home. Best defense is no be there. -- Mr. Miyagi.


This, right here, is exactly why I'd rather drive in a foot of snow, mid-blizzard with almost zero visibility than in 2 inches of snow. There's less other cars around when it gets really bad out, so not nearly as many idiots to deal with.

Of course. I ski twice a week, and if it is sunny I use I-25 to I-70 to mountains. If it is snowing, or even better, blizzard, which means I will definitely hit the slopes, I use back roads. People who drive on back roads usually have good tires (snow) know how to dive and there is less traffic. I-70 during snow is a massacre here in Colorado. Mostly tourists renting cars and then whole mess starts. Two years ago drivers needed 8hrs to go 60 miles from Breckenridge to Denver because of snow issues, meaning, a lot of people realized AWD and 4WD really do nothing going downhill.