Are sealants that contain silicone bad for paint?

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1,841
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United We Stand
 Quote:
No. In fact, automotive paints worldwide contain silicone as an ingredient to help the paint to spray and flow more smoothly.
Products from turtlewax, nufinish and even meguiars all have silicone. I've seen claims on this board that silicone will cause your paint to chip and peel and/or that you will never be able to repaint your car etc. Nufinish in particular has gotten a bad wrap because of the misinformation over the use of silicone.
 Quote:
The fear and confusion surrounding this single ingredient, silicone, is an ongoing problem people run into when they get caught up in the hype and misinformation spread from person to person, generation to generation and now-a-days, on the internet, which exaggerates the problems surrounding the use of silicones in car care products. There are some sources that even go so far to say that silicones are harmful to paint. This is not only dishonest; it calls into question the credibility of that resource and any and all claims they make. Silicone is inert. It cannot harm paint, let alone anything else it is formulated into, or sitting on top of, especially in the form of a coating of wax.
All quotes are from meguiars faq on the subject. http://www.meguiars.com/faq/index.cfm?faqCat=General%20Questions&faqQuestionID=19§ion=_19
 
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134
Location
Missouri
I have been using some of the Meguair's products for years and have not had any issue with the Silicone that is in them causing my paint to peel or chip. Right now I use their Tech Wax 2.0 which does contain silicone. Silicone can help act as a sealant better than just wax alone. What I do know is that you don't want to use a product that contains silicone if you are going to be painting. In fact in the Meguair's proffessional line they state which ones have and don't have silicone in them for this purpose. Body shops that need to use compounds or polishes do not want to use a product with Silicone as new paint will not adhear to the surface correctly. I think for this reason is where the rumors get started.
 

JHZR2

Staff member
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44,823
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New Jersey
I believe the following is Sal Zaino's commentary:
 Quote:
There is much more to a polish/wax then just a shine.... Carnauba Wax and Gloss The truth of the matter is Carnauba is a, dark yellow, brittle wax. It has no durability. It also has no high shine. In reality it's actually a dull wax. It is not optically perfect and leaves a film (haze) on the paint finish. If you took two identical colored cars and placed them side by side. The one with Zaino would be the true color. The other car would have a slightly different tint to it. What you are seeing with Carnauba is a combination of carnauba wax, polyethylene wax, paraffin wax and the key gloss ingredient SILICONE OIL. Silicone oil is inexpensive, greasy, smeary, not durable, but shines like crazy. Just try Pledge furniture polish on your car. Voila same shine. Hmm. Pledge is loaded with silicone oil, so is Armor All tire dressing. Did you ever notice how greasy, smeary and dusty, furniture looks with Pledge on it. How soon does your car get dusty after you polish/wax with your favorite product?????:( When does the gloss start to drop???:( I already know..:) Now here's the best part. Silicone oil and other oils are an essential ingredient of Carnauba based products. It's the only way to achieve a shine. That's why it's used in all Carnauba based polish/wax. However, it has no durability, does not last and it attracts dust and dirt like a magnet and once dust settles on it, it sticks to it. Dust on paint causes tiny Swirls and Scratches. Also Carnauba is very brittle. It will not stay on the paint surface for any length of time. Most of the time less than 3 weeks....... The sun also effects Carnauba based products. The sunnier and hotter it gets, the faster it deteriorates. Remember wax melts and oils tend to migrate to the surface and evaporate... Sad but true. Fact: On a sunny 80 degree day, the surface temperature of black paint will reach 149 degrees and go up to 198 degrees if the ambient temp reaches 90. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what happens to the wax. When designing and formulating a polish. These are just a few of the factors that you want to avoid. Show Car polish has a wet looking gloss, incredible durability, water beads like crazy, is not effected by the sun and does not attract dust or dirt. There are no oils, abrasives or wax in Zaino. Nothing sticks to Zaino Show Car polish. I am probably the most anal person when it comes to optically enhanced paint finishes and protection and polish/wax. I've tested over 300 polish/wax to date. Nothing even comes close to the Zaino system. And you can't beat the price!!! :) Interesting isn't it. IMHO Carnauba just doesn't cut it....
 
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217
Location
California
I don't think they are bad for paint, but the real question should be what exactly is good or beneficial to paint. Wax? Silicone oil? Acrylic's? Polymer's? It is complicated, because silicone oil is a polymer. My personal belief is that non-oily polymers and acrylics are the products that are most beneficial to paint. Oily products and wax are beneficial to paint, but at what cost? They protect the paint, but aren't as durable and they don't repel dust and other contaminants like high end polymers and acrylics.
 
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PA
Silicone oil is not a polymer. Silicone oil always remains in a fluid state while a polymer cures. Silicone oil is used as a filling agent or a spreading agent with waxes. While silicone oil may not be harmful to the paint if it get under the paint and into fiberglass it can cause damage. Amino functional silicone is a polymer.
 
Last edited:
Messages
217
Location
California
Understanding of Polymer Chemistry http://www.thefreedictionary.com/polymer Silicone oil is indeed a polymer, there is no such mandate that a polymer cures, just that it links. That is why there are soo many "polymer" sealants, but several of them are nothing more then silicone oil and solvent. Some sealants not only link, but crosslink, that separates the men from the boys in sealants. Silicone is used in several ways, yes to soften wax, but also as the main ingredient. There are a few silicones that were bad for paint in the 50's, but now silicone in metal isn't a problem with repainting. They wont harm paint, and are semi beneficial, however there are better things out there.
 

Cup of Joe

Thread starter
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Shamlessly stolen from autopia.
 Quote:
The Role Silicone Plays in Car Care Products Published by Mike Phillips One of the most frequent comments I hear when I go to car club meetings and events is that silicone is bad for your car. It's a common myth, from years gone by, that the mere presence of silicone near a car will cause the paint to shrivel up and fall off or prevent it from ever being repainted. These myths are false, but the latter is based on factual problems painters once experienced. The fact is that all modern automotive paints contain silicone as an ingredient to help the paint to spray and flow smoothly. Most of the concerns people have about silicones and products that contain silicones stem from the days when lacquers were used as the primary car finish. Back then, if the surface wasn't properly prepared, residual silicones on the bodywork or in the shop environment would cause paint defects. The most common silicone induced problem is a small defect referred to as "fish eyes". Fish eyes are small craters that form in the paint finish. Fish eye defects form where the paint piles up in a circle surrounding a point on the surface that contains a contaminant. The reason freshly sprayed paint does this is because contaminants like wax and silicone tend to create high surface tension and do not allow the paint to properly flow and self-level. Instead of laying down flat, paint moves away from these ingredients, forming a ring around them that has the visual appearance of what is historically described as a fish eye. In severe cases, where the painter does not properly prepare the bodywork for painting, contamination from wax, oils and silicones can cause paint adhesion problems. Knowledge of paint and other automotive finishes have evolved and grown substantially since the 1950's. The problems painters encountered 50 years ago are more easily addressed with today's modern paint formulas and prepping chemicals. Likewise, the modern paint facility has evolved into a high-tech environment (primarily due to environmental regulations), and paint additives help overcome common flaws. More importantly, modern paint technicians are educated in their craft. Until the 1970's, there were very few formal training programs available for young men and women entering the automotive repair industry. Today there are certified schools that specialize in formal education for the automotive industry. This includes paint manufacturers, who provide in-depth training for anyone who uses their paint systems. All professional body shops understand that the cars they repair have been maintained using products that contain waxes, oils and silicone. For this reason, all professional repair facilities perform the necessary preparation work required to insure that the paintwork is free of contaminates before they begin their work. In so doing, the dreaded "fish eyes" will not be a problem. The preparation work includes using special degreasers and silicone removers that effectively remove these substances from the surface or chemically alter their molecular structure in such a way to insure they pose no problems. If there is ever any question or doubt about the surface to which new paint is going to be applied, painters will use a paint additive to eliminate fish eyes. Interestingly enough, the paint additive that eliminates fish eyes is typically a special silicone additive. SILICONES USED IN CAR CARE PRODUCTS There are many kinds of silicones available for use in car care products. They vary in form and functionality. Car care chemists select the best performing silicones to create a desired finish for each kind of car surface. Silicones are primarily used to modify or enhance a specific characteristic of another ingredient in a polish, wax or protectant formula. Silicones are not used for any characteristic they offer in and of themselves. There are some functions in a car care formula that only silicone can produce or no other ingredient can perform better. One of the most commonly used features of silicone is its ability to lubricate (improve slip). The use of some types of silicone in a formula acts to make the product easier to apply and buff off. In this way, silicone lubrication helps reduce surface marring (scratches and swirl marks) induced from wiping with bad toweling or applicators. That's a benefit to you. Chemists also use silicones to create water-in-oil emulsions, reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products. Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no oil or petroleum), and are completely inert. The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with polydimethylsiloxane (or other derivatives of the compound). The fear and confusion surrounding this single ingredient, silicone, is an ongoing problem. Some small car care chemical manufactures create fear, uncertainty and doubt in people's minds by claiming their products contain "no harmful silicones," suggesting that silicone is harmful to the paint. This product hype and misinformation spread from person to person, generation to generation, and now-a-days on the internet, exaggerates the myth that silicones in car care products are harmful. The fact is that the largest and most respected names in the paint and body shop industry, which include 3M and Meguiar's, use silicones in their car care products to make them better. The facts are indisputable. Silicone is part of the protective system in paint and helps the paint look better and last longer. Silicone cannot harm paint, let alone anything else it is formulated into, or sitting on top of, especially in the form of a coating of wax. Without properly blended silicones, waxes would be difficult to apply and would not have the high gloss and radiance we enjoy. __________________ Mike Phillips Technical Training Specialist Meguiar's Inc.
http://www.autopia.org/forum/detailing-a...e-products.html
 
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217
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 Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Shamlessly stolen from autopia.
 Quote:
The Role Silicone Plays in Car Care Products Published by Mike Phillips One of the most frequent comments I hear when I go to car club meetings and events is that silicone is bad for your car. It's a common myth, from years gone by, that the mere presence of silicone near a car will cause the paint to shrivel up and fall off or prevent it from ever being repainted. These myths are false, but the latter is based on factual problems painters once experienced. The fact is that all modern automotive paints contain silicone as an ingredient to help the paint to spray and flow smoothly. Most of the concerns people have about silicones and products that contain silicones stem from the days when lacquers were used as the primary car finish. Back then, if the surface wasn't properly prepared, residual silicones on the bodywork or in the shop environment would cause paint defects. The most common silicone induced problem is a small defect referred to as "fish eyes". Fish eyes are small craters that form in the paint finish. Fish eye defects form where the paint piles up in a circle surrounding a point on the surface that contains a contaminant. The reason freshly sprayed paint does this is because contaminants like wax and silicone tend to create high surface tension and do not allow the paint to properly flow and self-level. Instead of laying down flat, paint moves away from these ingredients, forming a ring around them that has the visual appearance of what is historically described as a fish eye. In severe cases, where the painter does not properly prepare the bodywork for painting, contamination from wax, oils and silicones can cause paint adhesion problems. Knowledge of paint and other automotive finishes have evolved and grown substantially since the 1950's. The problems painters encountered 50 years ago are more easily addressed with today's modern paint formulas and prepping chemicals. Likewise, the modern paint facility has evolved into a high-tech environment (primarily due to environmental regulations), and paint additives help overcome common flaws. More importantly, modern paint technicians are educated in their craft. Until the 1970's, there were very few formal training programs available for young men and women entering the automotive repair industry. Today there are certified schools that specialize in formal education for the automotive industry. This includes paint manufacturers, who provide in-depth training for anyone who uses their paint systems. All professional body shops understand that the cars they repair have been maintained using products that contain waxes, oils and silicone. For this reason, all professional repair facilities perform the necessary preparation work required to insure that the paintwork is free of contaminates before they begin their work. In so doing, the dreaded "fish eyes" will not be a problem. The preparation work includes using special degreasers and silicone removers that effectively remove these substances from the surface or chemically alter their molecular structure in such a way to insure they pose no problems. If there is ever any question or doubt about the surface to which new paint is going to be applied, painters will use a paint additive to eliminate fish eyes. Interestingly enough, the paint additive that eliminates fish eyes is typically a special silicone additive. SILICONES USED IN CAR CARE PRODUCTS There are many kinds of silicones available for use in car care products. They vary in form and functionality. Car care chemists select the best performing silicones to create a desired finish for each kind of car surface. Silicones are primarily used to modify or enhance a specific characteristic of another ingredient in a polish, wax or protectant formula. Silicones are not used for any characteristic they offer in and of themselves. There are some functions in a car care formula that only silicone can produce or no other ingredient can perform better. One of the most commonly used features of silicone is its ability to lubricate (improve slip). The use of some types of silicone in a formula acts to make the product easier to apply and buff off. In this way, silicone lubrication helps reduce surface marring (scratches and swirl marks) induced from wiping with bad toweling or applicators. That's a benefit to you. Chemists also use silicones to create water-in-oil emulsions, reduce emulsion particle size, to stabilize emulsions, and to improve spreading and coverage of wax products. Most modern silicone formulas are water soluble (no oil or petroleum), and are completely inert. The best way to describe most forms of silicone is to think of it as a man-made wax ester. Silicone is created by the reaction generated when you combine fatty acids with polydimethylsiloxane (or other derivatives of the compound). The fear and confusion surrounding this single ingredient, silicone, is an ongoing problem. Some small car care chemical manufactures create fear, uncertainty and doubt in people's minds by claiming their products contain "no harmful silicones," suggesting that silicone is harmful to the paint. This product hype and misinformation spread from person to person, generation to generation, and now-a-days on the internet, exaggerates the myth that silicones in car care products are harmful. The fact is that the largest and most respected names in the paint and body shop industry, which include 3M and Meguiar's, use silicones in their car care products to make them better. The facts are indisputable. Silicone is part of the protective system in paint and helps the paint look better and last longer. Silicone cannot harm paint, let alone anything else it is formulated into, or sitting on top of, especially in the form of a coating of wax. Without properly blended silicones, waxes would be difficult to apply and would not have the high gloss and radiance we enjoy. __________________ Mike Phillips Technical Training Specialist Meguiar's Inc.
http://www.autopia.org/forum/detailing-a...e-products.html
Who stole what?
 
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406
Location
Northern California
Didn't read it all, so if this is a repeat, well... Silicone is only "bad" when painting a car. If any silicones get on the paint, the paint job won't be any good. Hence, "body shop safe" products that are silicone free.
 

Cup of Joe

Thread starter
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1,841
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United We Stand
 Originally Posted By: sammy
Some sealants not only link, but crosslink, that separates the men from the boys in sealants.
Everyone seems to be agreeing silicone is not bad for your paint. So cross linking separates the men from the boys? Nu finish cross links so its one of the men then?
 Quote:
Nu Finish is made up of a series of zinc cross-linking polymer emulsions that help Nu Finish last longer than any other polish on the market. This is why Nu Finish is called "The-Once-A-Year Car Polish." Watch how Nu Finish makes water bead month after month.
Does this mean the Nu finish haters are wrong?
 
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