Are Koni shocks worth it?

[theguru]

Wasn't sure if this was the right forum so excuse me if it isn't.

Looking up changing the shocks on my GM Holden 3.8 ecotec. ('96 VS).

I believe the originals are a monroe oem. Anyway, done 1117,000km and thinking they are getting a bit tired. What I have looked at so far is Monros sensatracs, kyb's and Konis. The Konis are 2-3 times are much. The question as above, are they worth the extra?

I drive moderate to hard at times, but want a comfortable ride. I have heard some gas units can give a harsh ride. 95% of my running is under 60-70kph.

 

[tdi-rick]

In a word, yes.
The Sensatracs will ride better, but the Koni's will out handle and out last the Monroes hands down, not to mention they are adjustable.

Note that you can obtain several versions for a VS. For road use you are best off using pt. # 86-2535 and 80-2738 for the IRS.

The sport version (8641-1297 and 8041-1195 Sport top adjustable) are really a road/track damper and will probably be too harsh for daily use.
Bear in mind the standard Konis are adjustable, just not as easily as the 'Sports' version.

If a damper rides harshly, it's a function of its valving and not whether it's gas charged or not. The Bilsteins we had on our Patrol were filling rattlers due to massive amounts of low speed bump valving to control body roll and the high unsprung weight, but jump in a Mercedes sedan and the same brand are boulevard smooth.

 

[seotaji]

please do not purchase the koni red's, as they are crap and you most likely don't need adjustable dampers.

koni yellow are the dampers that i would buy, but not if i were looking for a nice pleasant ride. they are overkill for your situation.

the kyb dampers are usually slightly fimer than stock, but hold the road much better and much cheaper to boot. PLUS they usually come with a lifetime warranty.

the monroes are 'decent', but i would never buy them. i also consider kyb to be a superior damper in every way.

 

[tdi-rick]

quote:

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please do not purchase the koni red's, as they are crap

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how do you work that out ??

 

[seotaji]

i purchased them with the mistaken belief that they would be adjustable without having to take the whole strut assembly apart. it was my fault for thinking that they would be similar to the kyb AGX series, but better since they were more expensive, but ignoring that, they just didn't last very long (less than 30k and the replacements were the same way). i was very disappointed.

they were also supposedly made for my type car and my intended usage (accord, medium intensity driving), but who, other than a racer, takes apart a strut assembly to adjust valving? also they were poorly made. you could see it in the construction.

the kyb's i purchased to replace them were much better and actually looked like OEM replacements, except for the dial on the side.

overall i was VERY disappointed with koni and would never consider purchasing the red dampers again. the yellow on the other hand are worth the cost and their build quality is much better.

 

[theguru]

I have asked and think the ones quoted were Specials or maybe reds?? They are adjustable but I was told for wear only and had to be done off the car.

The Monroes were abt $125 each whilst the Konis $260 each for the fronts. For the rears the same for the Monroes for 2, but abt $320 for the Koni's.
From what I have read the KYB's have some reputation for being poor in the cheap units (GR-2's) but fairly good in the adjustables. I think whiteline sells them here and they are somewhere in between on pricing. I don't know which model the KYBs are however.

The Konis are 3 year warranty and I think the Monroes are 2 years. Not really a big deal. Not too many products sold here that have a lifetime warranty.

 

[theguru]

Looks like the Koni model nos are: 86-2535 front & 80-2738 rear.

 

[tdi-rick]

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they just didn't last very long (less than 30k and the replacements were the same way). i was very disappointed.

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Seotaji, just a thought, were they 80/82 series twin tube dampers, or 30 series mono-tube ? Bottom line is you should get much more than 30 000 miles out of either of them.
You've really taken me by surprise with your experience there. I'd be awfully unhappy as well, and doing a fair bit of jumping up and down and yelling at the importer.

Years ago they did come poorly finished in terms of paint and presentation, but they made up for that in the quality of their internals. One area they are still slack in is packaging of spares. I've had valve assemblies turn up, still sealed in their little plastic packet with surface rust on them ! Complete shocks have always been immaculate internally.

I must admit I haven't used any car Koni's for a number of years, but their 82 series 4WD 'Specials', now known as 'Heavy Track' are excellent build quality, being far superior to say, a Ranch RS 9000 in strength and longetivity and valving. (although I'm unhappy with some recent Nissan ones and will be re-valving them)

I've fitted them to a number of road and off road vehicles over the last twenty years, and they've always lasted until the vehicle was sold.

We also used them on open wheel race cars, particularly the older 8212 series alongside Penske, Bilstein and Ohlins and they worked in certain specific applications very well.
I've also re-built/re-valved a few recently to suit a specific application, which is something you can only do with Bilsteins or a twin tube Koni of the mass market shocks. The mono tube Koni's aren't revalveable/re-buildable, although you can externally adjust the rebound valving. When they assemble the damper, the top of the body is crimped in to hold the top bush/seal assembly. On the twin tube it is threaded and screwed, and Bilstein use a circlip.

They actually have the reputation here in Australia as being the shock absorber you use if you want them to last and not blow seals when you load your 4WD up to travel through the outback.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

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Originally posted by seotaji:
i purchased them with the mistaken belief that they would be adjustable without having to take the whole strut assembly apart. it was my fault for thinking that they would be similar to the kyb AGX series, but better since they were more expensive, but ignoring that, they just didn't last very long (less than 30k and the replacements were the same way). i was very disappointed.

they were also supposedly made for my type car and my intended usage (accord, medium intensity driving), but who, other than a racer, takes apart a strut assembly to adjust valving? also they were poorly made. you could see it in the construction.

the kyb's i purchased to replace them were much better and actually looked like OEM replacements, except for the dial on the side.

overall i was VERY disappointed with koni and would never consider purchasing the red dampers again. the yellow on the other hand are worth the cost and their build quality is much better.

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This must be application specific. I've had multiple sets of Koni reds for Ford fox chassis applications and they've all been just fine. I did have one start to leak after many years but Koni sent another out to me n/c right away. The struts for that application are top adjustable and a tool is provided with each one. The rears are a conventional shock and need to be removed and compressed to adjust the dampening. It's never been a problem for me becasue I have always run them full soft anyway.

I also had a set of the reds on a Datsun 510 and they were still on the car when it went to scrap after being wrecked. They'd been on it a long time and again, no problems. YMMV.

I will agree with the KYB being a good shock though. I had a set on a Toyota that lasted over 150K miles with no leaks and no problems...

 

[seotaji]

quote:

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Seotaji, just a thought, were they 80/82 series twin tube dampers, or 30 series mono-tube ?

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Tirerack.com says "Twin Tube Low Pressure Gas Standard Adjustable Shock Absorber".

I have no idea what series they are, sorry.

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You've really taken me by surprise with your experience there. I'd be awfully unhappy as well, and doing a fair bit of jumping up and down and yelling at the importer.

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Yep, there really wasn't anything I could do, as the company refused to refund my money and I was tired of spending my hard earned money and free time disassembling my suspension to replace the cartridges. I did what any person would do. I sent the dampers back for the third time and when I recieved the replacements, I sold them on Ebay and used the money to purchase the KYB AGX.

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From what I have read the KYB's have some reputation for being poor in the cheap units (GR-2's)

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I'm surprised at that, but I only have personal experience to go on and everyone is different. KYB's are the only dampers I've ever reccomended (when cost/quality are a concern) and they have never let me down. They are usually far superior to OEM dampers i.e. GM, unless OEM is made by bilstein

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