Are cloud-based automotive electronics a real liability?

I don’t mean to be naive, but I was not aware that my 2006 has a black box, and that on my wife’s 2011, DTCs cannot be cleared out by disconnecting the battery, nor by an OBD2 scanner. Only the car can clear out the codes.

Seeing as a lot of time has passed since 2006 and 2011, it’s safe to bet that a lot has moved in the direction of the house winning, and car owner losing.
Black box was mandated by the NHTSA at some point - quite a while ago - like 2010 ish? Many had it before then but all cars have it since. Keeps track of things like speed, etc prior to an accident.

However a data logger is significantly different than OTA changes, to me at least.
 
That must be one of those snarky internet show me the white paper comments?

Any device can brick doing a firmware update - OTA or otherwise, if the memory doesn't accept the update completely or the memory has otherwise failed. Its just less inconvenient to the owner when it happens in the dealers bay vs the walmart parking lot.

OP doesn't want updates - it should be his right, its his truck. Most vehicles never get their firmware updated and they continue to motor down the road.

You sure on any device? Are these firmware or software updates car makers are doing? There are key differences . Also heavy considerations on “bricking” a router vs a vehicle….
 
I have a 2021 Ranger XL. It has the rudimentary SYNC 1. The car allows you to shut off Internet connectivity. One click and it's done. Looks like you can shut off connectivity in vehicles up to and including SYNC 4. Go to settings, etc. etc.
 
You sure on any device? Are these firmware or software updates car makers are doing? There are key differences . Also heavy considerations on “bricking” a router vs a vehicle….
Every OEM allows different levels of OTA access. If the truck needs a tow, it needs a tow. Possibly not bricked, can be reloaded direct - still the same issue.

Clearly the OEM's are trying to mitigate the need to pay dealers to do updates - they would rather send them OTA - which is more convenient for the owner also - when it works. OP doesn't want it. Everyone needs to decide the risk / reward for themselves.

You were looking for an example - here is one - looks like today. Not the first time for Ford either. https://www.f150gen14.com/forum/threads/ota-update-bricked-my-truck-guess-i’m-in-for-a-tow.26156/

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Surely no OEM is dumb enough to try an ECU update remote - although possibly I give them too much credit.
All it takes is a desire to please a government regulator in a consent decree, if they get caught in emissions noncompliance, to want to have an avenue to reflash "all" the affected cars. If it means sneaking in a backdoor vs some fine that could affect a CEO's stock options they will sell all their customers out in a heartbeat. Some states make you get your recalls taken care of to renew registrations but many do not. Dodge had a "flash of death" in the late 1990s that took away timing due to pinging due to leaky intake gaskets and oil getting into the combustion chamber. Once people got flashed they couldn't go back. (Obviously they had to visit the dealer and request it at the time.)
 
You sure on any device? Are these firmware or software updates car makers are doing? There are key differences . Also heavy considerations on “bricking” a router vs a vehicle….
I'm pretty sure you run Windows and never had it bricked a system install. Thus, because you never had a bricking incident, you would then argue the security updates never bricked another computer. I'm not even referring to the botched update that happened in these past few days, but older updates on single installs.
 
All these new systems have some sort of remote start via cell phone capability - whether its enabled in your trim or not. So by definition, the infotainment is connected to the start / security circuit. Its likely connected to more than that via CAN - but its going to be system specific.

Surely no OEM is dumb enough to try an ECU update remote - although possibly I give them too much credit. However if their infotainment is tied to the remote start / security I can certainly see them pushing a update to it, especially if they find a vulnerability. Some small percentage may brick the system due to a memory failure even if the update is good - which most often happens during a write cycle.

Not saying its going to be common, but saying its not possible or even likely for some small sample is foolish. Do you trust Mary Barra or Jim Farley to make good decisions on your behalf? :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:

I have a Chrysler right now with uConnect 5. I got a recall fixed via OTA update for the back up camera. I do not believe it is linked to the ignition/security system, and I don’t mind it if it stays that way. I could care less if someone hacked my car and pulled whatever information they could from it. As long as it starts and drives I’m happy. Assuming the brakes, throttle, and steering are its own standalone system lol
 
Plenty of times Fords that have the OTA updates will have an issue, brick whatever module didn't update, and then the vehicle has to be towed in. It is still a huge grey area if it is warranty or not.
So I assume that if Ford pushes an update on something, causes it to need a tow or shop repair for whatever reason - actually bricked or just flatlined and needs the code to be direct loaded - and its out of warranty - then owner pays?

That would seem to be correct, but it would be a really good reason to turn the updates off. The problem with some of these systems is you can't really do so, at least not without loosing other functionality you paid for.
 
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