Are all synthetics created equal?

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I have been reading about synthetics on this forum the last few days.I have noticed that people suggest different OCIs for different makes.I'm somewhat confused. I thought all synthetics were "man made" oils,using just a little bit of crude.What seperates them from one another,the ingrediants or the way they are processed?
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Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I have been reading about synthetics on this forum the last few days.I have noticed that people suggest different OCIs for different makes.I'm somewhat confused. I thought all synthetics were "man made" oils,using just a little bit of crude.What seperates them from one another,the ingrediants or the way they are processed?
confused2.gif



Ask Castrol..........

Group III, Group IV and Group V are all different compositions and refer to "base oil" however the enthusiasm for Group III+ Mobil 1 should show that it doesnt matter all that much. Royal Purple is Group IV, and Redline is Group V. Group V is entirely different compounds, Group III/III+ is extremely refined hydrocracked oils.
 
Uoa's give you choices on what works best. You might get extended drains with the cheapest synthetics. Even with more expensive ones depending on how well your engine is doing can lead to much shorter drains.
 
Motor oils are made up of the base oil plus various additives.

The base oil is what's referred to as synthetic or conventional, and in the industry is categorized into groups:
-Group I, II & II+ are conventional, going from lower to higher quality.
-Group III is allowed to be called synthetic, because it can be made to have similar performance to real synthetics, but actually it's just further refined conventional oil.
-Group IV is a true synthetic, made of PAO, or polyalphaolefins.
-Group V is also a true synthetic, made of POE, or polyol esters.

In many cases, what actually determines the performance of a finished motor oil is which additives are present in what quantities.
-Viscosity index improvers are polymers that adjust the way the oil reacts to heat & cold, reducing the change in viscosity over temperature.
-Detergents clean the junk from combustion out of the engine.
-Dispersants keep soot & other junk suspended in the oil instead of dropping out and clogging things.
-Antiwear additives protect surfaces where metal-to-metal contact is part of normal operation, such as cam lobes.

That's the 60-second summary.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
I have been reading about synthetics on this forum the last few days.I have noticed that people suggest different OCIs for different makes.I'm somewhat confused.


Different strokes for different folks...different driving conditions in different climates, severe service OCI vs normal service OCIs, etc. etc.

Bottom line? Excepting abuse & negligence scenarios, the engine will likely outlive the vehicle body regardless of the lubricant brand used if recommended oils are used per the vehicles OM.
 
Short answer is NO.

I would rather use a high quality dino like PYB than a no name synthetic for a reasonable OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
Short answer is NO.

I would rather use a high quality dino like PYB than a no name synthetic for a reasonable OCI.

Would you ever use WM's brand,Super Tech dino?
 
Originally Posted By: NateDN10
Motor oils are made up of the base oil plus various additives.

The base oil is what's referred to as synthetic or conventional, and in the industry is categorized into groups:
-Group I, II & II+ are conventional, going from lower to higher quality.
-Group III is allowed to be called synthetic, because it can be made to have similar performance to real synthetics, but actually it's just further refined conventional oil.
-Group IV is a true synthetic, made of PAO, or polyalphaolefins.
-Group V is also a true synthetic, made of POE, or polyol esters.

In many cases, what actually determines the performance of a finished motor oil is which additives are present in what quantities.
-Viscosity index improvers are polymers that adjust the way the oil reacts to heat & cold, reducing the change in viscosity over temperature.
-Detergents clean the junk from combustion out of the engine.
-Dispersants keep soot & other junk suspended in the oil instead of dropping out and clogging things.
-Antiwear additives protect surfaces where metal-to-metal contact is part of normal operation, such as cam lobes.

That's the 60-second summary.


This a really good summary; but I also want to point out that when looking at API groupings of base oil, the actual purpose of this system is to control consistency when dealing with multiple base oil suppliers (in the industry we call it base oil interchange)

A good chart for understanding can be found here
As you see in the chart, Sulfur content, Saturate content and Viscosity Index are what determines the category. Oil manufacturers can work change the base oil to a different supplier within the same group without notifying the API or their consumers. There is also some leeway when making changes if the base oils are close enough (example Group II+ to lower Viscosity Indexed Group III).

Many in the BITOG community make the mistake of saying that Group III is better than Group II, and Group V is better than Group IV. That's just not the case, they are different and are chosen for finished oil products for a variety of reasons, including production cost.

There are benefits to the higher VI and other properties of Group III and Group IV base oils (both are used in synthetic oils) which formulators take into account. Interestingly all PAO is considered Gr IV even if it has a lower viscosity index than a group III. And the official description of Group V is anything not in the other groups - which as you indicated is primarily ester based, but they're not always better.

The competitive difference and what accounts for the differing performance comes down to additives. This is why additive formulations are closely guarded trade secrets.
 
Originally Posted By: BlueOvalFitter
Originally Posted By: pbm
Short answer is NO.

I would rather use a high quality dino like PYB than a no name synthetic for a reasonable OCI.

Would you ever use WM's brand,Super Tech dino?


I would and I have.
WM ST oil is made by various suppliers. In some areas it's Warren, in others it's E-M, and in others it's Shell.
Since it meets the SN rating it should be fine for a 5K OCI.
 
Originally Posted By: Zero
What group is AMSOIL?


The OE and XL line are reputed to be Group 3's while the SS line is Group 4. All are excellent oils for their intended purpose.
 
Originally Posted By: pbm
Originally Posted By: Zero
What group is AMSOIL?


The OE and XL line are reputed to be Group 3's while the SS line is Group 4. All are excellent oils for their intended purpose.


No oil is any complete one group or another. For example, no way is Amsoil SS 100% Group IV, because it contains esters.
 
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