API SM, Do you miss it?

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I often read how some feel the 'old SM' version of many oils had better additives or more additives, making the oil more stout. Do you consider API SM the high point in motor oils and SN a step back in wear with a nod to CAFE?
 
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Not really. I use Xw-40 oils anyway, and they're not subject to any stricter additive limits in SN spec. As a matter of fact, I don't really care about any API specs at all. smile Go ahead, tell me I'm predictable again. smile
 

wemay

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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Not really. I use Xw-40 oils anyway, and they're not subject to any stricter additive limits in SN spec. As a matter of fact, I don't really care about any API specs at all. smile Go ahead, tell me I'm predictable again. smile
Lol QP! Actually, that's angle I didnt see coming.
 
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In a similar vein to Pete, I use SM (dual) rated HDEOs, so this isn't applicable to me either.
 
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Originally Posted By: wemay
I often read how some feel the 'old SM' version of many oils had better additives or more additives, making the oil more stout. Do you consider API SM the high point in motor oils and SN a step back in wear with a nod to CAFE?
Thats an astute observation. Not many here can wrap their heads around the fact oil evolution is driven by CAFE and emissions, NOT engine protection. For the record I am not claiming the latest oils are "bad" at all, (so please spare the hysterical retorts, thanks!). However, the earlier versions DID indeed have stouter add packs. Royal Purple in particular took a lot of abuse by the uninformed here claiming it was "behind the times" with their strong SL oils, then when RP produced a SM oil, the same ignorant ones howled it was now "weaker", go figure. Yes, SL and SM were probably the high mark for motor oils. Not all have the capability to understand this.
 
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Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Not many here can wrap their heads around the fact oil evolution is driven by CAFE and emissions, NOT engine protection. For the record I am not claiming the latest oils are "bad" at all, (so please spare the hysterical retorts, thanks!)
Actually, API SN has stricter limits on piston deposits, so from that standpoint it is a better oil and helps better protect your engine from deposits. That's not a hysterical retort. API SG had an even higher add pack allowance. Does that mean we should all head back to those old oils? Were they really better overall?
 

wemay

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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Originally Posted By: dparm
/flamesuit on
I think I'll have to borrow it. smile
hide
 
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Originally Posted By: wemay
I often read how some feel the 'old SM' version of many oils had better additives or more additives, making the oil more stout.
Actually, the lower limits on phosphorus and sulfur were already introduced in API SM. There was no further reduction going from SM to SN, as far as I can see, unless I'm not reading the specification correctly. That's why some of these additive rich high mileage oils are still at API SL.
 
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Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: wemay
I often read how some feel the 'old SM' version of many oils had better additives or more additives, making the oil more stout. Do you consider API SM the high point in motor oils and SN a step back in wear with a nod to CAFE?
Thats an astute observation. Not many here can wrap their heads around the fact oil evolution is driven by CAFE and emissions, NOT engine protection. For the record I am not claiming the latest oils are "bad" at all, (so please spare the hysterical retorts, thanks!). However, the earlier versions DID indeed have stouter add packs. Royal Purple in particular took a lot of abuse by the uninformed here claiming it was "behind the times" with their strong SL oils, then when RP produced a SM oil, the same ignorant ones howled it was now "weaker", go figure. Yes, SL and SM were probably the high mark for motor oils. Not all have the capability to understand this.
API SM/SN still have identical maximum ZDDP limits on resource conserving grades. Non resource conserving grades do not have the same maximum limitations. There are quite of few friction modifiers are compounds which do not show up on VOA/UOA's. An tribologist will be able to provide examples for you. PCMO's do not go backwards in performance. Newer certifications require less wear, longer stay in grade operational viscosity, greater compatibility with fuel and seals. We are often the victim of our need to feel in control. Concentrating on part of the lubricant such as the add pack feeds us this need.
 
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I don't miss SM but do miss a few of the lubes that were sold in that era, like Moly loaded Maxlife. Fortunately we have the SN version of PYB instead.
 

wemay

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Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: gfh77665
Originally Posted By: wemay
I often read how some feel the 'old SM' version of many oils had better additives or more additives, making the oil more stout. Do you consider API SM the high point in motor oils and SN a step back in wear with a nod to CAFE?
Thats an astute observation. Not many here can wrap their heads around the fact oil evolution is driven by CAFE and emissions, NOT engine protection. For the record I am not claiming the latest oils are "bad" at all, (so please spare the hysterical retorts, thanks!). However, the earlier versions DID indeed have stouter add packs. Royal Purple in particular took a lot of abuse by the uninformed here claiming it was "behind the times" with their strong SL oils, then when RP produced a SM oil, the same ignorant ones howled it was now "weaker", go figure. Yes, SL and SM were probably the high mark for motor oils. Not all have the capability to understand this.
API SM/SN still have identical maximum ZDDP limits on resource conserving grades. Non resource conserving grades do not have the same maximum limitations. There are quite of few friction modifiers are compounds which do not show up on VOA/UOA's. An tribologist will be able to provide examples for you. PCMO's do not go backwards in performance. Newer certifications require less wear, longer stay in grade operational viscosity, greater compatibility with fuel and seals. We are often the victim of our need to feel in control. Concentrating on part of the lubricant such as the add pack feeds us this need.
Makes sense. Sort of like the Noack fervish recently seen here.
 
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I kind of miss the change the oil every 3k mile times and kinds of oil. Especially the SA oils. It was simpler then. No internet to distract me. An no bob is the oil guy to inform me. And no cell phones to bother me at times. Got to ride motorcycles all day with my buddies. And only had to go to school and study a little bit. And oil was not synthetic back then. And we bought what was cheap and on sale and changed it often. And I had not made too many life decisions back then and certainly no bad ones.. I wish I was still in the SA and SB era and here I am stuck with you guys. Oh well
 

wemay

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A true Bitoger... delineating his life's journey through API designation. Ahh, where has the time gone. whistle
 
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Add to the journey SLOB, Auto-Rx, MMO, Valvoline Max Life Oil Treatment, Lucas oil stabilizer, Buster vs Amsoil, and Mori vs BITOG There has been many stops on this journey.
 
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Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Not really. I use Xw-40 oils anyway, and they're not subject to any stricter additive limits in SN spec. As a matter of fact, I don't really care about any API specs at all. smile Go ahead, tell me I'm predictable again. smile
I smell European here. A 40 grade oil for god sake!
 
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No. I think SN represents a step up from SM. I particularly like the part about reducing volatility of the ZDDP to keep it in the engine.
 
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