Anyone seen this pileup video? 2/15/19 in central Missouri

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Sometimes it's better not to drive. This actually came from the California Highway Patrol Placerville office asking people to stay off because there were so many accidents. However, they seem to be pushing the problems to I-80.

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https://www.facebook.com/CHPPlacerville/photos/a.1492791987620999/2359023810997808/

CHP - Placerville
***MORNING UPDATE 2/16/19 at 0955***
US-50 is already backing up. Motorists just don't want to heed our warnings.
Chain control from Point View to Meyers.
Expect an 8-10 hour trip to South Lake Tahoe, if you are lucky. Snow will continue to fall and CalTrans will continue to hold traffic intermittently for avalanche control. THEY HAVE TO DO THIS TO KEEP YOU ALIVE!

We have been keeping our officers pretty much on double shifts keeping everyone available out there. We have been doing this since yesterday, even if you may not have seen us. We are seeing a situation where our roads cannot handle this amount of traffic in these conditions. Rather than direct traffic in many cases we are having to go rescue people who have put themselves in bad situations by being unprepared. Thank you to CalTrans, EDSO, Fire and all other agencies out there helping to mitigate the issues.

Want to know why it is backing up? Too many people are showing up to chain control completely unprepared. YOU CAN'T BUY CHAINS FROM CALTRANS. Your chains also do no good on the non-drive axle. Locations to buy chains are sparse once you get on the hill.
You have a large snowstorm over several days, add in chain control, intermittent closures for avalanche control, thousands of unprepared motorists, a 3 day weekend, and you get traffic backed up.

THERE ARE NO ALTERNATE ROUTES ON BACK ROADS IF YOU ARE ON 50. STOP TRYING TO FOLLOW GPS OFF OF 50.

I-80 is open and is designed to handle more vehicles.

To repeat what we have said all week, if you don't absolutely have to go, then don't. STAY HOME PLEASE
We will try to keep you updated best we can.
KCRA 3 KRON 4 News NewsRadio KFBK ABC10 FOX40 CBS13 CBS Sacramento
Caltrans District 3 Caltrans HQ CHP - South Lake Tahoe
#snow #travel #slt #CHPinEDC #dontcomeupherethisweekend #bepreparedifyoudo #chainsondriveaxle #dontblockinresidents #becourteousofthelocals

[Linked Image]
 
Originally Posted by DejaVue
Originally Posted by ka9mnx
I remember one time in a white-out I couldn't see the end of my hood. Extremely scary stuff! I've seen this time-and-time again. People just don't slow down.

Sometimes in white-outs and fog I wonder if some people think going slower is more dangerous since if they go slow maybe someone going faster behind them will rear-end them. Ideally, everyone would slow down a lot under such conditions. But it can be like on an interstate that has a 70mph limit... they also often have 45mph minimums. Even under clear skies, speed differentials can increase accidents.

Lots of vehicles have fog lights on the front. I'm surprised so few manufacturers put fog lights on the rear of their vehicles for the USA market. (I think it's required in Europe.) When going slow, probably slower than most other people on the road (like mentioned in the first paragraph), there is more concern about being rear-ended.

It's against the law to drive with your hazard lights on. But on some vehicles you can turn on the rear fog light(s), and drivers behind you can probably see you from twice as far away.

Yea, I always worried about someone plowing into the back of me me when I slowed down for fog or snow...
 
Sad thing is the news always blames the wrecks on winter conditions, instead of the countless untrained drivers everywhere, that have no clue on driving dynamics, and their vehicle.
 
I guess people haven't been following that advice about avoiding that snowed in road.

https://www.kcra.com/article/unprepared-sierra-travelers-overrun-pollock-pines-highway-50/26374493

So fights breaking out in the Sierra foothills community of Pollock Pines. I've been there. Maybe a CVS, one supermarket, a Taco Bell, a couple of gas stations, and a few independent restaurants. I remember having lunch at some now closed Mexican restaurant called Los Hermanos. But now they're swamped with people relieving themselves on the front of businesses and starting fights. Also triple parking on the streets because there's no place to park to the point where they can't even move.
 
Nothing is perfection, but there's no substitute for honest to gosh snow tires. Not all-season tires. Not all terrain tires. Snow tires.they've made big improvements over the years.

Not too practical if you live in Phoenix and have a cabin in Flagstaff, I admit.
 
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
Winter tires help, but on the interstate it just means you'll get rear ended by the speeding morons that don't have them. Honestly, I usually stick to the back roads when it gets bad, or don't go at all-the interstate gets too dangerous (& usually there's a huge wreck that turns it into a parking lot anyway).

That is what I do when ski. If I see slight possibility of snow, I go back roads. All tourists on I70, when it snows, it is like you are looking at death penalty.
That is exactly what happened on I70 Eastbound in the Rockies, above Denver. Someone had snow tires, and 69 cars ended up slamming that person.
They were thinking to require winter tires after that, but rent-a-car companies lobbied against it.
 
We had a bunch of snow up here last week. Looking at the traffic maps, I-5 was solid for about 80-90 miles. Definitely not the way to go.

The passes got 8 feet last week.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
Winter tires help, but on the interstate it just means you'll get rear ended by the speeding morons that don't have them. Honestly, I usually stick to the back roads when it gets bad, or don't go at all-the interstate gets too dangerous (& usually there's a huge wreck that turns it into a parking lot anyway).

That is what I do when ski. If I see slight possibility of snow, I go back roads. All tourists on I70, when it snows, it is like you are looking at death penalty.
That is exactly what happened on I70 Eastbound in the Rockies, above Denver. Someone had snow tires, and 69 cars ended up slamming that person.
They were thinking to require winter tires after that, but rent-a-car companies lobbied against it.

Even in Quebec, there is a big exception for out of province vehicles. I've driven in Canada where they have stricter standards for child safety seats, but I could use my US spec child seat in a US registered car.

In California or Nevada there are limited routes to ski areas and it's easy enough to set up chain controls. Anyone can buy chains in anticipation of needing them, but some rental agencies don't allow them. I guess Colorado only has chain requirements for commercial vehicles? I've only experienced one car rental in winter (Chicago) although my dad drove. I remember when we picked it up, it had all seasons, an ice scraper on the passenger side floor mat, and deicer in the windshield reservoir. Didn't see any snow, but the windshield was usually iced.
 
Originally Posted by jimbrewer
Nothing is perfection, but there's no substitute for honest to gosh snow tires. Not all-season tires. Not all terrain tires. Snow tires.they've made big improvements over the years.

Not too practical if you live in Phoenix and have a cabin in Flagstaff, I admit.


They are not practical in that area of MO, either. Most of winter the road temps are well above 40F.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by edyvw
Originally Posted by bullwinkle
Winter tires help, but on the interstate it just means you'll get rear ended by the speeding morons that don't have them. Honestly, I usually stick to the back roads when it gets bad, or don't go at all-the interstate gets too dangerous (& usually there's a huge wreck that turns it into a parking lot anyway).

That is what I do when ski. If I see slight possibility of snow, I go back roads. All tourists on I70, when it snows, it is like you are looking at death penalty.
That is exactly what happened on I70 Eastbound in the Rockies, above Denver. Someone had snow tires, and 69 cars ended up slamming that person.
They were thinking to require winter tires after that, but rent-a-car companies lobbied against it.

Even in Quebec, there is a big exception for out of province vehicles. I've driven in Canada where they have stricter standards for child safety seats, but I could use my US spec child seat in a US registered car.

In California or Nevada there are limited routes to ski areas and it's easy enough to set up chain controls. Anyone can buy chains in anticipation of needing them, but some rental agencies don't allow them. I guess Colorado only has chain requirements for commercial vehicles? I've only experienced one car rental in winter (Chicago) although my dad drove. I remember when we picked it up, it had all seasons, an ice scraper on the passenger side floor mat, and deicer in the windshield reservoir. Didn't see any snow, but the windshield was usually iced.

Chains more or less, winter tires will help much more in situations like this. It is impossible to expect from tourists to install chains on rental vehicles, plus effectiveness is questionable in various conditions.
As for chains, yes, commercial vehicles must carry them, and in case of storm, they must install them. After that accident State increased drastically fines, so I think now is $1,100 per one hour of lane blockage if responsible for accident. It is also easy to set up chain check points here as I70 is only interstate going to ski resorts. On back roads snow tires are required unless car equipped with all seasons with M+S and AWD (though negates most important aspect of winter tires, braking).
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
Chains more or less, winter tires will help much more in situations like this. It is impossible to expect from tourists to install chains on rental vehicles, plus effectiveness is questionable in various conditions.
As for chains, yes, commercial vehicles must carry them, and in case of storm, they must install them. After that accident State increased drastically fines, so I think now is $1,100 per one hour of lane blockage if responsible for accident. It is also easy to set up chain check points here as I70 is only interstate going to ski resorts. On back roads snow tires are required unless car equipped with all seasons with M+S and AWD (though negates most important aspect of winter tires, braking).

Wasn't sure how it works out. I remember seeing some video footage of I-70 in Colorado when it was open but it was still icy as heck. The driver of the car where the video was shot from was driving really slowly, but other cars were still whizzing by him.

I haven't really driven in snow in years but have gone up to the Sierra in winter. Luckily the roads were clear, but I was a bit worried that we might run into chain conditions with a sudden storm so I bought some chains just in case. And for my wife's 2002 Civic LX it wasn't necessarily the greatest car for the conditions. I did want to try it out when I did see some snow where I could avoid getting into too much trouble. There was this terraced multi-story garage where there was about a foot of snow where it was exposed. Not a single car parked in that area since most wanted it inside where snow hadn't accumulated. Inside there was of course a lot of snow that was tracked in, but it was more like slush. So I tried powering through that snow on the exposed part and just started spinning the front wheels. I found that even with lousy all-seasons and FWD, I got moving only if I accelerated really, really slow. But if it was my WRX I would have been able to get going much easier. However, one of the problems around California and Nevada is that many AWD drivers manage to get going but don't know how to deal with stopping or steering in low-traction conditions.
 
Originally Posted by y_p_w
Originally Posted by edyvw
Chains more or less, winter tires will help much more in situations like this. It is impossible to expect from tourists to install chains on rental vehicles, plus effectiveness is questionable in various conditions.
As for chains, yes, commercial vehicles must carry them, and in case of storm, they must install them. After that accident State increased drastically fines, so I think now is $1,100 per one hour of lane blockage if responsible for accident. It is also easy to set up chain check points here as I70 is only interstate going to ski resorts. On back roads snow tires are required unless car equipped with all seasons with M+S and AWD (though negates most important aspect of winter tires, braking).

Wasn't sure how it works out. I remember seeing some video footage of I-70 in Colorado when it was open but it was still icy as heck. The driver of the car where the video was shot from was driving really slowly, but other cars were still whizzing by him.

I haven't really driven in snow in years but have gone up to the Sierra in winter. Luckily the roads were clear, but I was a bit worried that we might run into chain conditions with a sudden storm so I bought some chains just in case. And for my wife's 2002 Civic LX it wasn't necessarily the greatest car for the conditions. I did want to try it out when I did see some snow where I could avoid getting into too much trouble. There was this terraced multi-story garage where there was about a foot of snow where it was exposed. Not a single car parked in that area since most wanted it inside where snow hadn't accumulated. Inside there was of course a lot of snow that was tracked in, but it was more like slush. So I tried powering through that snow on the exposed part and just started spinning the front wheels. I found that even with lousy all-seasons and FWD, I got moving only if I accelerated really, really slow. But if it was my WRX I would have been able to get going much easier. However, one of the problems around California and Nevada is that many AWD drivers manage to get going but don't know how to deal with stopping or steering in low-traction conditions.

It is hard to make road wet at 10,000ft, and extremely low temperatures during storm, where salt and de-icing chemicals loose effectiveness below certain temperature.
Going up problem are light 18-wheelers, and regardless that there are chain stations, a big ones to put chains on, there are always fools that try to do it without. Going down, when most accidents happen, it is usually full size SUV that has all seasons on or similar "invincible" vehicle in snow.
This accident in MO indicates also how clueless people are about snow conditions and how pathetic our driving education is. Cars without lights, excessive speeds etc.
Also, I found this lately, since I got Toyota, that many vehicles have dashboard lighting ON, regardless that headlights are OFF. I saw many people driving without headlights even at night (street lights provide them enough visibility) because I think they think that lights are ON bcs dashboard is all lit up.
 
Originally Posted by edyvw
It is hard to make road wet at 10,000ft, and extremely low temperatures during storm, where salt and de-icing chemicals loose effectiveness below certain temperature.
Going up problem are light 18-wheelers, and regardless that there are chain stations, a big ones to put chains on, there are always fools that try to do it without. Going down, when most accidents happen, it is usually full size SUV that has all seasons on or similar "invincible" vehicle in snow.
This accident in MO indicates also how clueless people are about snow conditions and how pathetic our driving education is. Cars without lights, excessive speeds etc.
Also, I found this lately, since I got Toyota, that many vehicles have dashboard lighting ON, regardless that headlights are OFF. I saw many people driving without headlights even at night (street lights provide them enough visibility) because I think they think that lights are ON bcs dashboard is all lit up.

I've seen some doozies where I've driven in snow. My first try I was doing it on the most pathetic excuse for an M+S tire tread I've ever seen - the Pirelli P Zero Nero M&S. Exact same tread pattern as their summer version with a similar name but apparently with an all-season compound and a carcass that produced a smaller contact patch. Great in dry conditions but borderline scary in snow. But still at a chain checkpoint I got a flashlight and once-over of the tread depth of my left front tire, saw that it was a Subaru, and got waved through California R2 chain conditions.

I was scared as heck and tried to drive slowly without losing momentum. In the meantime I saw some stuff that gave me pause. Stuff like a big 4WD (I think a GMC Denali) stuck in a snowbank getting help from a Caltrans crew. Also a RWD pickup with an empty bed going nowhere fast trying to get out of a parking lot with a slight incline to get to the road.

I suppose the one thing about putting chains on is that it will at least get most drivers to slow down since there are tons of warnings that they can damage vehicles if driven over the speed rating. But even then I've seen balled up chains on the side of the road. They must have been wrapped up in the wheel well (causing heavy damage) for some time before being tossed off.
 
15 car pile up? That aint nuthin. We get some much worse than that pretty much every winter here in Michigan. Especially on I-96/94. The loss of life or even serious injury is very tragic. Yet, it happens way too often. I slow way down in winter weather.
 
Half of the day yesterday was fast, swirling winds, creating at times white-out conditions. The wind was nasty and blew around new and old snow and created two-feet-high snow drifts across 3/4 the width of my road. A couple generic sedans tried to make it down the road. They wound up jamming up the road for three or four hours.

That's minor compared to the 131-vehicle pile-up on the interstate.



More pics and videos in this link:
Pileup involving 131 vehicles Neenah; 1 killed, 71 hurt

"I've been in the law enforcement business — this is my 27th year," Winnebago County Sheriff's Department Chief Deputy Todd Christopherson said. "On scene, that was the worst conditions I've ever seen."
 
These pile ups are getting worse every year. I guess drivers are getting worse every year. People need to slow down and pay attention, this would reduce accidents (and stress) at least by half.
 
Originally Posted by DGXR
These pile ups are getting worse every year. I guess drivers are getting worse every year. People need to slow down and pay attention, this would reduce accidents (and stress) at least by half.

I think a lot of little things have been mentioned here. I suppose winter tires possibly being required is one. The only place in North America I know of that requires dedicated winter tires during winter months is Quebec, and they have an exception for short term visitors where all-season tires are considered acceptable. I think there's also a ways to get a 7 day exemption for something like a vehicle that's garaged through most of winter.

But yeah. When I've driven in snow I've been tailgated and seen drivers go way too fast for the conditions.
 
What blows my mind even more is people who continue to sit in their cars. I mean if at all possible, get out and as far away from the scene as safely possible. Your car's already screwed and sitting inside it is not going to save it! A big truck comes sliding through at 60 and you're gonna be flatter than a pancake. No passenger car, pickup or SUV will ever win against an 18 wheeler, this coming from a truck driver, and I don't care how safe your ride is! More people wind up dead in situations like this for not using their head. The scenario is simple, if you crash in these conditions, you were going too fast. SLOW DOWN!
 
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