As an investment, this might be interesting. Other than that, I don't understand the appeal of full auto. Do people who buy these things actually shoot them?
Anyone looking for a fully-auto .308 ?
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f355spider
$50 Site Donor 2025
Doesn't include machine guns, or destructive devices. Those are still subject to the tax.
The exemption is for SBRs, suppressors and AOWs.
What is cool, is there are now lawsuits to eliminate the NFA registration requirements for SBRs, suppressors and AOWs, so they transfer just like any other firearm.
Here is the legal justification being argued:
"Removing the tax stamp requirement could be seen as invalidating the National Firearms Act (NFA) because the NFA's constitutionality has long been justified under Congress's power to tax, not its power to regulate firearms. Without the tax, the legal foundation for the accompanying regulations—like registration and background checks—is vulnerable to legal challenges."
f355spider
$50 Site Donor 2025
The original military M14 receiver is a forging. Springfield Armory commercial receivers are investment castings. There are a couple specialty M1A semi auto receivers that are forged. Bula and LRB are two I can think of.
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This argument came up within days of the bill's proposal that included the elimination of the tax. I haven't heard a peep about it in months though so I presume until it becomes effective, nothing can be filed in court to argue it ?
f355spider
$50 Site Donor 2025
I suspect you are correct...the actual filings will occur in January. But its all being teed up from what I am reading. Manufacturers would love to make the purchase process easier. The $200 tax is a needless burden...but the actual paperwork hassles, forming a trust and the wait...eliminating all of that would make a lot more people willing to purchase those items. So it is being largely driven by the industry.
Just dug into this.... There are (3) suits already filed and they were ALL filed on Oct 8, 9, and 10 and filed in (3) different courts.
I was In Vietnam 1966-67 with a full auto M14 as my issue weapon. I gave the unit armorer my selector switch. I had fired it in full auto and it was of no use at all.
I was at a range once when someone brought out what looked like a WWII full auto greasegun. I think it was 45 cal. Pretty stubby so no real accuracy at any distance, but maybe when its spitting them out, one could walk it in to a target.
No one said a word to that person. Who wants to ask a person with a gun like that, if he has proper paperwork.
No one said a word to that person. Who wants to ask a person with a gun like that, if he has proper paperwork.
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Yeah, full auto is pretty much a last resort.
For someone with real money, it might be a nice display. If I won the lottery, I might look for a tripod-mounted something, just to display. That would be cool.
Wishful thinking with how wishy washy the ATF is now
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No doubt. Certain actions are more balanced, such as the FAL, which can be OK in full auto, but yeah the M14 was a good try at a do all weapon, but there really is no such thing.
During training my dad was taught that machine guns were good at making the bad guys keep their heads down.
His brother, an instructor, like my dad, laughed aloud during the rope climbing scene in "The Dirty Dozen" when the major cut a rope with grease gun fire. He then explained to me the heavy bolt slamming forward, the recoil and unbalanced nature of the M1943.
His brother, an instructor, like my dad, laughed aloud during the rope climbing scene in "The Dirty Dozen" when the major cut a rope with grease gun fire. He then explained to me the heavy bolt slamming forward, the recoil and unbalanced nature of the M1943.
The club I belong to doesn't allow fully automatic guns (but they're okay with rapid fire here and there) so it would never come up for them to ask. They certainly don't check if you have a tax stamp for suppressors which are quite common there. Pretty sure it's the ATF's job and only theirs.
Yeap, they're primarily for suppressive fire.
Keep in mind that the select fire feature on the original M14 was Ordnance Corps' idea to create a substitute for the Browning Automatic Rifle. The M14 in semi auto mode is a great platform. In full auto, it's a disaster.
I have been to "Machine gun shoots", so yes. However those shoots are in relatively secluded areas, and are attended by ATF and FBI agents to insure compliance with the law.
Sorry for the typo above.
The last one I attended I was welcomed to shoot a Lewis Gun, and a BAR. The Lewis gun was fun, but needed a "special touch" to shoot reliably. Me, being a newbie at the time, had a jam. Not uncommon in a gun that old.
The BAR was flawless.
I have a select fire (auto) M-14, smith enterprises conversion. I put it in a heavy McMillan MFS-14 folding Stock and scout rail dust cover that adds ~5 lbs of weight or so over the GI fiberglass stock. It also has a "USCG" muzzle brake that helps quite a bit. The McCMillan stock accepts AR buttstocks and has a recoil reducing spring in the buffer tube. At ~15 lbs unloaded it becomes somewhat controllable, especially proned out with the bipod. Of course I have the original style E2 stock and a bunch of other GI stocks. It’s a lot of fun. It has a forward mounted aimpoint on the scout rail. Old videos below are from 10 years ago or so. It's mostly just a conversation piece but if they're going for $30k now I guess it was a decent investment. In my experience the main shortcoming of the platform is magazine reliability due to dimensional variances between the various USGI and "commercial" recievers/mags.
As purchased with the original E2 stock, brake, bipod:
Might have to be logged in to watch:
As purchased with the original E2 stock, brake, bipod:
Might have to be logged in to watch:
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Hmmmm, I think you have a point there. I am not sure if autos are in the deal. They are NFA though for ition on sure. If the NFA is gone, then so should be the prohibition on autos.
My statement was merely toward the stamp fee, whether or not it will kill the NFA or not is a different story, I think it is unlikely.
Really, I am not so sure I want fellas who are not formally trained with full autos running amuck.
Not sure about all states, but I've never heard of any that require "training" in order to buy or own a firearm.
There is a gun store in Huntsville that rents machine guns to shoot at their range, in case I ever need to scratch my full auto itch.
