Anyone know alignments?

[GerGa]

I just put all new front struts and rear replacement auto leveling air shocks on my 2004 Buick Lesabre and got an alignment. The tires are pretty new about 7,000 miles on them.
See the pic for the alignment specs. The rear camber is too negative so I am going to put in metal camber plates. They do 1/4 degree increments.
With rear camber at -0.9 degree at both left and right I would like to use either 1/2 or 3/4 degreee plates. They would put me at -0.4 or -0.15 deg. I am torn between the two but going for the lower camber spec might be better because as the shocks wear out and the car sags the rear will gain negative camber.

But then the toe in the rear is 0.09 and 0.05 degrees. Is there some way I should factor that into my camber plate judgement? As in, maybe adjusting the toe also affects camber in some way?

 

[GerGa]

Also, the shop offered to re-check the alignment free of charge if I put the camber plates in.

 

[eljefino]

That camber won't wreck your tires but the car will understeer now more than ever.

 

[hansj3]

No, camber and toe should not be linked. However how you install the plates can effect either toe or camber or both.

.15 should be about right. Too low, and you'd get oversteer. Those gm cars were so squishy, under steer gets lost in the mix, but oversteer feels really weird

 

[Egg_Head]

What brand (and p/n's please) shock & struts did you buy? My mother's 2005 Ultra (Park Ave) needs new dampers. Local Pep Boys is flummoxed by the electronic suspension and not sure which parts to use. Also how is the ride with the new equipment, did you use all in one springs/struts up front or reuse OE springs?

 

[Snoman002]

With those numbers I wouldn't worry about it. What will happen is your rear will have slightly more grip than a regular "alilgned" car, this is a good thing. The downside, as mentioned, is now understeer will be more prevalent. Seeing as its a 2004 Buick Lesabre this thing already understeers like a lumber truck, and in all honesty I doubt you drive it to that level anyways. And in actuality that's all a lie, you won't have MORE understeer, it will just oversteer LESS. You have increased grip in the rear end. On the other hand, the slight rear toe out will help the backend rotate, so its a bit of a wash. In all reality those are fairly good numbers provided the toe doesn't make the backend feel nervous.

If it were me with those numbers I would be asking them to dial in the front with some camber and leaving the rear alone. My car runs 1 degree in the rear and 1.5 degrees in the front, and that's with 20" LOW profile tires (35). On your car little more (or should I just say ANY) camber in the front would actually improve handling a great amount, and minimize some of the understeer. Go to far however and it will get a tendency to dart, but you are far from those numbers.

I'm no expert, but I do perform my own alignments in my garage using turn plates and other things.

 

[Hokiefyd]

The alignment looks great to me. Personally, I wouldn't touch a thing on it -- I think you got a great alignment from the shop. GM specified just a little bit of negative rear camber anyway. You're just slightly out of spec, but you're 1/10th of a degree out of spec -- don't touch it. They also fixed your front toe (I'll bet the steering feels a little more direct and precise now).

Also -- the rear of this Buick does not have toe out, it has toe in. Positive toe is toe in.

Depending on the design of this rear suspension, static camber and toe may be linked. The plane of the toe control mechanism is often not on the same plane as the camber fulcrum, so as you move the top of the knuckle in and out, you'll change camber and toe at the same time. This will depend on design -- some designs use a different fulcrum plane, some use unequal length links, some use both, etc.

Again, it's my opinion that you should not touch this car.

 

[CHARLIEBRONSON21]

Can't adjust rear camber? Has the tech not seen these slammed cars driving around?

 

[GerGa]

I should add that the rear camber is not adjustable which is why I am adding plates.

Hokiefyd, thank you for the positive insight. I think I might take a look at the rear in my garage to see how noticeable the rear camber is. These cars tend to wear the insides of the rear tires badly especially as the rear shocks wear and the car tends to sag a bit. Also to the person who mentioned it, this car has the gran touring package with anti roll bars so it does not have excessive body roll while cornering.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Does it have wider tires than most LeSabres, too? Like maybe 225/60R16s?

 

[GerGa]

Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
Does it have wider tires than most LeSabres, too? Like maybe 225/60R16s?


Yes that is the exact size

 

[Snoman002]

As mentioned it has toe in, not toe out. Their pictorials were a little confusing, as was the toe in on a squishy suspension FWD vehicle.

I wouldn't touch it, you have a good alignment, don't let the scary red pictures convince you to run out and throw money away.

 

[Hokiefyd]

Circling back around on this (sorry, I was out of town for a bit)...

I imagine that your tires, being a little wide and probably sitting a little more "square" to the road than narrower tires, are likely more sensitive to rear camber than something like a 205/75R15. Still -- I'd monitor this over the next 6-12 months and see how everything wears in.