Anyone intimate with Honda's VCM?

[mclasser]

Another vote for starting a paper trail with the dealer.

My Pilot's had a Muzzler for the past 25k miles and doesn't consume a drop of oil. I was very particular about I how I broke in the car and made sure to leave the FF in for the full OCI.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: OilSwine
UD, FWIW, my experience with these engines. I am a Honda fan and also have a 2017 Ridgeline.

Had a 2001 Odyssey, put 210,000 miles on it, never a problem of any kind, not even transmission. But, wife felt like 200k was enough, so we got a new 2012 Ody in 12/2012. It had VCM. Took it on a 1200 mi road trip a couple days after we got it. Burned oil from then on. First oil change I did at ~4000 mi got maybe 2.5 QTS out. Started monitoring it, burned 1 qt every 1500 miles. Started tracking with dealer. Learned about the VCM issues, Honda said usage was within "spec" but was told about the warranty extension. Hit 17,000 miles, and got the misfire, bad coil, fouled plug limp mode event. Honda covered it, but I didn't want to deal with it any more. Traded in 12\13 for an identical 2014 Ody.

My research during this had led me to the VCMuzzler, wish I had tried it on the '12 before I got rid of it. But put it on the '14 early. Never used a drop. Drove better too. But, to be fair, I was more deliberate about how I broke it in.

Fast forward to late 2016, I ordered a 2017 RL RTL-T, and put a Muzzler on it the second day I had it. Never used a drop. BTW, Loren, the maker of the Muzzler made me a specific resistor that worked better for the DI V6 engines. A week later, we totaled the Ody and replaced it with a 2017 Pilot with the same J35Y6 engine. Put the Muzzler on it day 1. Never used a drop. We also have a 2012 Pilot with the J35Z4 we bought with 75k miles, put a Muzzler on it as soon as we got it and never used oil. Of course all of these anecdotes yield a bunch of anecdotal evidence, but I am a believer.

So, my recommendation, get a real Muzzler from Verbatim. Ask for the custom 136ohm resistor. See if the oil usage abates, hopefully so. I would be confident that if it continues at the present rate you'll have fouled plugs, bad coils and misfires eventually.

Again, this is just my experience.



Thanks for the feedback

Ive read all the links here, and that I can find, but I still can't find a real explanation as to why VCM substantially increases consumption.

I get the vibration issues, motor mount problems, and other ancilllary issues. I heard the factory guys nickname it " Voluminous Consumption of Motor oil" but why?

All the problems I find are traced to some other problem like excessive OCI's low oil, sticking rings etc, intermittent activation because of low or dirty oil etc....

Is it being washed off the "dead hole" cylinder walls? How much can be there to begin with? Seems to me it would end up back in etc crankcase with fuel in it that were happening.


UD

 

[Silverado12]

It could just be breaking in. My wife's 2017 Jeep Cherokee 2.4 used 2 quarts of oil in the first 5K interval (0W-20) but when I changed the oil the next time it stopped. It's a good idea to get it documented but also to see if it slows down or stops when you put more mileage on it. FWIW she's into 4,000 miles of the second 5,000 mile oil change interval and the stick is a little under full, so not even 1/4 quart was used. I had never seen this before, but maybe these newfangled low tension rings need a little more time to break in.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Silverado12
It could just be breaking in. My wife's 2017 Jeep Cherokee 2.4 used 2 quarts of oil in the first 5K interval (0W-20) but when I changed the oil the next time it stopped. It's a good idea to get it documented but also to see if it slows down or stops when you put more mileage on it. FWIW she's into 4,000 miles of the second 5,000 mile oil change interval and the stick is a little under full, so not even 1/4 quart was used. I had never seen this before, but maybe these newfangled low tension rings need a little more time to break in.


Im certain break in is a component of whats happening.

Its interesting the lack of hard answers on why " additional" consumption is tied to VCM.



UD

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Dave, I would imagine it's because there is no combustion going on in the back 3 cylinders. If you are in deactivated mode for long enough, those cylinders will get quite a bit cooler than the ones that are pulling all the load. This does two things... no combustion gasses forcing the rings out against the walls to keep a tight seal and to scrape the oil off, which allows oil to work up into the combustion chamber, causing fouled plugs. The cooler cylinders will also allow the rings and piston to shrink incrementally, which will increase the clearance and therefore the blow-by.

This is likely the root cause of one of the "work-arounds" before the VCMuzzler or VCMTuner... when you were on the highway in cruise mode, every 2-3 miles you would give it enough gas to reactivate the cylinders to keep them warm and burn off the oil before you fouled plugs. Just my understanding of the issue.

 

[UncleDave]

Thanks.

I didn't think about the low tension ring packs - but of course this rig has to have them.
Pretty sure honda uses hypereutectic slugs that don't grow or shrink much but it makes sense if you add it all up.

Ive read (but who know what to trust) that the ridge doenst have/use the 3 cylinder mode, only the 4.

Where I drive there are always hills, and I don't think it likely gets much VCM time.
On longer trips at 75+ I doubt there is much VCM time either simply due to load, but If Im driving through kansas Ill be sure to kick it every couple of minutes.

UD

 

[Hounds]

Originally Posted By: UncleDave
. . . . Driving style so far is setting the cruise control between 74 and 80 for 1 K - and the same for 600.

I'm coming in late on this thread, but I have to ask: UncleDave, if you are still around, are you saying your initial mileage was with the cruise control set to limit your speed between 74 and 80 MPH for approximately 1600 miles?

 

[UncleDave]

Yup a 1000 mile trip and a 600 mile trip.

I drive between 5 and 10 over most of the time.

UD

 

[Hounds]

Well, Dave, the reason I asked about the initial mileage on your engine and whether you had driven it 1600 miles with the cruse control set as you described, was because every owner's manual I've ever read advised not to do what you did: namely, drive at a constant speed with the vehicle on cruise control for mile after mile.

But what do I know?

In any case, out of curiosity, I pulled out a 2017 Honda owner's manual, and waddaya know: It has nothing whatsoever -- not a single word -- about running in a new engine. That is surprising enough, but I then went to Honda's "official" webpage (owners.honda.com) and searched it to see what, if anything, HMC advises new owners about breaking-in a new engine. Nothing there either. Sure surprised me.

Thus, we can conclude that Honda did nothing to indicate your engine would have benefited from your varying your new engine's rpm often, and more specifically, lifting you foot off the gas periodically to create a semi-vacuum in the cylinders, which would tend to draw motor oil into the upper cylinders, thus aiding in lubricating the upper cylinders and piston rings. I believe this procedure is important, and I can't help but think the Honda boys simply assumed that, these days, the vast majority of new owners will almost invariably end up driving their new cars in such a manner that the engines are run in gradually. But, here again, what do I know?

In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest -- and let me get ahead of myself and apologize for my opinion -- that your engine, with its VCM that stops combustion in one or more cylinders under light load -- should have been run harder, varying the rpm under load much more frequently, for several hundred miles in an effort to seat the rings properly. IMHO what you did was the opposite of what I (and I assume many others) would regard as a "normal" break-in period. Whether that can be accomplished now is beyond my kin. I, however, would certainly give it a try. I hope it works out for you.

 

[gofast182]

Some familiarity with VCM:

I had a 2015 TLX and got a muzzler for it because the vibrations were unacceptable (I noticed no appreciable difference in MPG turning VCM off).

This would be the first Honda manual I've heard of that doesn't address break-in.

I've known some cars to use oil during break-in and never use another drop.

I've also known someone with oil consumption in a VCM engine and another, my wife's boss has a '09 Accord V6 with 170k miles and never an issue.

My advice is give it a bit more time. Consider a muzzler if for no other reason than to stop the unnatural firing order. Document everything but remember if you have the muzzler installed and are pursuing a warranty claim you run the risk of giving them an excuse for denial.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Hounds
Well, Dave, the reason I asked about the initial mileage on your engine and whether you had driven it 1600 miles with the cruse control set as you described, was because every owner's manual I've ever read advised not to do what you did: namely, drive at a constant speed with the vehicle on cruise control for mile after mile.

But what do I know?

In any case, out of curiosity, I pulled out a 2017 Honda owner's manual, and waddaya know: It has nothing whatsoever -- not a single word -- about running in a new engine. That is surprising enough, but I then went to Honda's "official" webpage (owners.honda.com) and searched it to see what, if anything, HMC advises new owners about breaking-in a new engine. Nothing there either. Sure surprised me.

Thus, we can conclude that Honda did nothing to indicate your engine would have benefited from your varying your new engine's rpm often, and more specifically, lifting you foot off the gas periodically to create a semi-vacuum in the cylinders, which would tend to draw motor oil into the upper cylinders, thus aiding in lubricating the upper cylinders and piston rings. I believe this procedure is important, and I can't help but think the Honda boys simply assumed that, these days, the vast majority of new owners will almost invariably end up driving their new cars in such a manner that the engines are run in gradually. But, here again, what do I know?

In any case, I'm going to go out on a limb here and suggest -- and let me get ahead of myself and apologize for my opinion -- that your engine, with its VCM that stops combustion in one or more cylinders under light load -- should have been run harder, varying the rpm under load much more frequently, for several hundred miles in an effort to seat the rings properly. IMHO what you did was the opposite of what I (and I assume many others) would regard as a "normal" break-in period. Whether that can be accomplished now is beyond my kin. I, however, would certainly give it a try. I hope it works out for you.



I agree on break in loading and know that the set speed of cruise doesnt tell the whole story.

Both drives were markedly different than a trip through the Midwest, or Kansas or other flat drive.

First place I headed was straight through a mountain range for 100 miles because that how you leave LA going north on the 5

The drive contains long hard (the grapevine being just one) hills and varied terrain the entire way that excersized the engine and gears nearly all the time.

The unit was continuously shifting to maintain that speed and varied as well as been run up to redline occasionally and briefly passing trucks that bring the whole freeway down to the 30's and 40 MPH like a caterpillar - testing LKAS and laser cruise was amazing.

She got plenty of varied load RPM and speed for break in.

One other thing to talk about is how far off this car is from the set mark - but thats another chapter.


UD

 

[Cujet]

The VCM Muzzler is $90, seems inexpensive enough to use as a troubleshooting tool. The benefits seem worth it. Plus it's easy to remove before a dealer visit.

 

[UncleDave]

Originally Posted By: Cujet
The VCM Muzzler is $90, seems inexpensive enough to use as a troubleshooting tool. The benefits seem worth it. Plus it's easy to remove before a dealer visit.


Whole thing seems cheeseball for such an expensive ride.

But Ill what a little while longer and see where I end up at first OCI.

Already documented the issue and started a paper trail.

UD