AC as in alternating current.It's those electronic devices that are supposed to get rid of unwanted noise and/or stray frequencies in the wiring.
anyone ever use AC line conditioners?
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for what app?
What are you trying to filter?
They typically are common mode chokes, perhaps with a pi filter. Not especially modern or sophisticated, but effective if you need a quick patch to meet regulatory requirements.
Presumably that's not why you want one.
They typically are common mode chokes, perhaps with a pi filter. Not especially modern or sophisticated, but effective if you need a quick patch to meet regulatory requirements.
Presumably that's not why you want one.
Garbage. I worked at Best Buy and thought it made no sense, became an electronics engineer and thought it made no sense, and continue to think it makes no sense.
Most electronics rectify AC to DC and run it through a bank of capacitors with the same intention of filtering out electromagnetic fluctuations. Most equipment where this may generate interference already have numerous other things in place to eliminate it, commonly in the form of toroidal RF chokes and other things.
Believe me, you don't need it, its a gimmick. Get a good surge protector, sure, but not a conditioner and other trash.
Most electronics rectify AC to DC and run it through a bank of capacitors with the same intention of filtering out electromagnetic fluctuations. Most equipment where this may generate interference already have numerous other things in place to eliminate it, commonly in the form of toroidal RF chokes and other things.
Believe me, you don't need it, its a gimmick. Get a good surge protector, sure, but not a conditioner and other trash.
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Garbage. I worked at Best Buy and thought it made no sense, became an electronics engineer and thought it made no sense, and continue to think it makes no sense.
Most electronics rectify AC to DC and run it through a bank of capacitors with the same intention of filtering out electromagnetic fluctuations. Most equipment where this may generate interference already have numerous other things in place to eliminate it, commonly in the form of toroidal RF chokes and other things.
Believe me, you don't need it, its a gimmick. Get a good surge protector, sure, but not a conditioner and other trash.
Good luck finding those fancy 'filter' things on bottom of the barrel PSUs. Anybody who knows anything won't run those but a large amount are still on the market.
Garbage. I worked at Best Buy and thought it made no sense, became an electronics engineer and thought it made no sense, and continue to think it makes no sense.
Most electronics rectify AC to DC and run it through a bank of capacitors with the same intention of filtering out electromagnetic fluctuations. Most equipment where this may generate interference already have numerous other things in place to eliminate it, commonly in the form of toroidal RF chokes and other things.
Believe me, you don't need it, its a gimmick. Get a good surge protector, sure, but not a conditioner and other trash.
Good luck finding those fancy 'filter' things on bottom of the barrel PSUs. Anybody who knows anything won't run those but a large amount are still on the market.
ok. thanks for the info.Yes, i did want to run it for audio.
Originally Posted By: daves66nova
ok. thanks for the info.Yes, i did want to run it for audio.
They are wonderful for the manufacturers. They make a lot of money selling them. They are also a big revenue generator for the audio magazines when they run ads for them. However, I have yet to see anybody do a blindfolded test and definitely say that they can tell the difference between conditioned electricity and unconditioned electricity time after time. Ask a promoter of these things to do a blind test in front of you and see what kind of an answer you get.
ok. thanks for the info.Yes, i did want to run it for audio.
They are wonderful for the manufacturers. They make a lot of money selling them. They are also a big revenue generator for the audio magazines when they run ads for them. However, I have yet to see anybody do a blindfolded test and definitely say that they can tell the difference between conditioned electricity and unconditioned electricity time after time. Ask a promoter of these things to do a blind test in front of you and see what kind of an answer you get.
The sale of 25 dollar RCA plugs and 10 dollar a foot "silver" speaker wire
to those with "superior hearing" (and credit limits to match) has always amused me. One of the cleanest and most powerful systems I have ever heard used Romex for speaker wire. Why not, the owner said, 25 Khz audio doesn't need an RF transmission line.
There is a lot of bleep on AC power lines, power companies ship data over them, for example, but if you have the dough to spend on a line conditioner you have probably spent a ton of money on audio gear, and the expensive stuff should have the proper power supply filtering built in. If you live next to a Voice of America transmitter site, that's different.
to those with "superior hearing" (and credit limits to match) has always amused me. One of the cleanest and most powerful systems I have ever heard used Romex for speaker wire. Why not, the owner said, 25 Khz audio doesn't need an RF transmission line.
There is a lot of bleep on AC power lines, power companies ship data over them, for example, but if you have the dough to spend on a line conditioner you have probably spent a ton of money on audio gear, and the expensive stuff should have the proper power supply filtering built in. If you live next to a Voice of America transmitter site, that's different.
Everyone knows how audio works. If you really believe it's better then it is... for you.
People are always buying stuff that if you really sat down and did blindfolded tests they either wouldn't know the difference or they might pick something astonishing to themselves!
I have a nice surge protector on my setups, that's all that is really needed. But there will always be the guy who wants what is sold as "the best". The sound will be warmer, sweeter, or whatever silly adjective is being used these days.
People are always buying stuff that if you really sat down and did blindfolded tests they either wouldn't know the difference or they might pick something astonishing to themselves!
I have a nice surge protector on my setups, that's all that is really needed. But there will always be the guy who wants what is sold as "the best". The sound will be warmer, sweeter, or whatever silly adjective is being used these days.
Some years ago, Stereo Review did a blind AB test between a "consumer grade" Pioneer reciever and a "Butterman" floor to ceiling rack of tube gear. The "audiophiles couldn't tell the difference, but blamed the AD switch for degrading the sound. (Oh, those sensitive ears) They REDID the test switching the cables by hand instead of using the AB switch. Same result. This time the beauties blamed the time it took to switch. Yeah sure. I think the Bose Illusion people understand this.
BTW, let it NOT be said that I dislike tube gear, "AH have MORE Collins Radio gear than NEED, and less than Ah WANT"
BTW, let it NOT be said that I dislike tube gear, "AH have MORE Collins Radio gear than NEED, and less than Ah WANT"
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daves66nova,
You generally don't need too much filtration in audio once past the front end stage. It's usually not a bad idea for digital sources, which are more sensitive to power irregularities, particuarly the modest-priced gear. It can also have minor benefit in some analog sources.
But once you get into the pre and power stages, a good internal PSU topology usually does a good filtration job. In a really high power system, you don't want much between you and the mains supply, other than transient protection.
Obviously, a cheap mass market audio instrument is not going to have as robust a power supply, and is generally capped and section supplied at marginal values throughout, so a spike/surge strip can be particularly helpful to them.
For most folks, something like an Isobar is enough for the typical system. Unless you've money to burn, solutions like a PS Audio power plant tend to be a poor value for most.
If you are looking to limit nominal mains voltage for some reason, a good variac is sometimes a good starting point to see if that is necessary.
You generally don't need too much filtration in audio once past the front end stage. It's usually not a bad idea for digital sources, which are more sensitive to power irregularities, particuarly the modest-priced gear. It can also have minor benefit in some analog sources.
But once you get into the pre and power stages, a good internal PSU topology usually does a good filtration job. In a really high power system, you don't want much between you and the mains supply, other than transient protection.
Obviously, a cheap mass market audio instrument is not going to have as robust a power supply, and is generally capped and section supplied at marginal values throughout, so a spike/surge strip can be particularly helpful to them.
For most folks, something like an Isobar is enough for the typical system. Unless you've money to burn, solutions like a PS Audio power plant tend to be a poor value for most.
If you are looking to limit nominal mains voltage for some reason, a good variac is sometimes a good starting point to see if that is necessary.
Originally Posted By: HerrStig
Some years ago, Stereo Review did a blind AB test . . .
You mean the rag where Julian Hirsch (rip) never met a component or speaker he didn't like? IMO, SR is the Motor Trend of the audio world.
Most audio mags fawn over whoever is paying them the most advertising dollars at the time. Sad but true.
Some years ago, Stereo Review did a blind AB test . . .
You mean the rag where Julian Hirsch (rip) never met a component or speaker he didn't like? IMO, SR is the Motor Trend of the audio world.
Most audio mags fawn over whoever is paying them the most advertising dollars at the time. Sad but true.
Does using a UPS count? I have a UPS for both my main desktop and my file Server. Our home theater uses a Monster Surge Protector/Line conditioner.
Originally Posted By: Kruse
Originally Posted By: daves66nova
ok. thanks for the info.Yes, i did want to run it for audio.
They are wonderful for the manufacturers. They make a lot of money selling them. They are also a big revenue generator for the audio magazines when they run ads for them. However, I have yet to see anybody do a blindfolded test and definitely say that they can tell the difference between conditioned electricity and unconditioned electricity time after time. Ask a promoter of these things to do a blind test in front of you and see what kind of an answer you get.
In our main system, I can tell what time of day it is from listening to it. There is less hash and better voltage stability on the mains supply well after peak hours, especially in the summer. Extremely subtle difference, but audible.
But I'm not buying a several thousand dollar piece of equipment to try and duplicate that.
Originally Posted By: daves66nova
ok. thanks for the info.Yes, i did want to run it for audio.
They are wonderful for the manufacturers. They make a lot of money selling them. They are also a big revenue generator for the audio magazines when they run ads for them. However, I have yet to see anybody do a blindfolded test and definitely say that they can tell the difference between conditioned electricity and unconditioned electricity time after time. Ask a promoter of these things to do a blind test in front of you and see what kind of an answer you get.
In our main system, I can tell what time of day it is from listening to it. There is less hash and better voltage stability on the mains supply well after peak hours, especially in the summer. Extremely subtle difference, but audible.
But I'm not buying a several thousand dollar piece of equipment to try and duplicate that.
Originally Posted By: Nick R
Does using a UPS count? I have a UPS for both my main desktop and my file Server. Our home theater uses a Monster Surge Protector/Line conditioner.
Depending on the system and the size of the UPS, a UPS is not necessarily a good idea in a home audio system. For many of the same reasons that you don't run a laser printer off of one.
I don't know what Monster is using these days, but that or an Isobar is probably a better solution for most.
Some cheaper digital front ends are noisy, and will pump that noise back into the mains locally. So isolated mains sections are sometimes good in that situation.
Does using a UPS count? I have a UPS for both my main desktop and my file Server. Our home theater uses a Monster Surge Protector/Line conditioner.
Depending on the system and the size of the UPS, a UPS is not necessarily a good idea in a home audio system. For many of the same reasons that you don't run a laser printer off of one.
I don't know what Monster is using these days, but that or an Isobar is probably a better solution for most.
Some cheaper digital front ends are noisy, and will pump that noise back into the mains locally. So isolated mains sections are sometimes good in that situation.
I use the ones that regulate to a set voltage. I have an old Sony Grand Vega that the microprocessor will lock up on several times a week unless it is run from a regulated AC supply.
As to the ones that only claim to remove noise, I'd look at my line with a scope to see what "noise" was present and then decide on a solution.
As to the ones that only claim to remove noise, I'd look at my line with a scope to see what "noise" was present and then decide on a solution.
If you worry enough about it that you think you need line filters and tons of expensive gear to get the best quality sound and be better then everyone else who doesn't seem to have these problems, you're obviously becoming an audiophile, and as a result, you'll always have some reason to complain about how you can tell the difference even though there isn't.
If you wanna worry and be like Carnoobie, go ahead, but unless you're generating power with a water wheel out back there's no reason to buy a big complicated power conditioner that doesn't specify exactly how it attenuates spurious signals, especially if you have no idea if these signals are even present.
"It must work, why else would they sell it, and its expensive too, must do something. I can definitely hear the difference...I think."
If you wanna worry and be like Carnoobie, go ahead, but unless you're generating power with a water wheel out back there's no reason to buy a big complicated power conditioner that doesn't specify exactly how it attenuates spurious signals, especially if you have no idea if these signals are even present.
"It must work, why else would they sell it, and its expensive too, must do something. I can definitely hear the difference...I think."
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Originally Posted By: RiceCake
Garbage. I worked at Best Buy and thought it made no sense, became an electronics engineer and thought it made no sense, and continue to think it makes no sense.
Most electronics rectify AC to DC and run it through a bank of capacitors with the same intention of filtering out electromagnetic fluctuations. Most equipment where this may generate interference already have numerous other things in place to eliminate it, commonly in the form of toroidal RF chokes and other things.
You could have stopped at 'worked at Best Buy' and still would have been right!
Congrats on the tough EE degree. It is not Poly SCi!
Believe me, you don't need it, its a gimmick. Get a good surge protector, sure, but not a conditioner and other trash.
Garbage. I worked at Best Buy and thought it made no sense, became an electronics engineer and thought it made no sense, and continue to think it makes no sense.
Most electronics rectify AC to DC and run it through a bank of capacitors with the same intention of filtering out electromagnetic fluctuations. Most equipment where this may generate interference already have numerous other things in place to eliminate it, commonly in the form of toroidal RF chokes and other things.
You could have stopped at 'worked at Best Buy' and still would have been right!
Congrats on the tough EE degree. It is not Poly SCi!
Believe me, you don't need it, its a gimmick. Get a good surge protector, sure, but not a conditioner and other trash.
Originally Posted By: RiceCake
. . . and tons of expensive gear to get the best quality sound and be better then everyone else . . .
What's with all the G.D. hate around here for anyone who aspires to have better quality audio equipment?
People around here spend their money on expensive luxury and sports cars and get applauded. Someone else wants to spend it on audio gear and gets this?
Get over the hate. The fact is more, more expensive equipment sometimes just is better.
The OP's question was legit. He may not require what he might be contemplating, but that's a different issue. Stop diminishing his concern, and his passion, with the tired old stereotypes.
If you can't afford that lifestyle, sorry. No offense, but most of the audio stuff at BB is trash.
. . . and tons of expensive gear to get the best quality sound and be better then everyone else . . .
What's with all the G.D. hate around here for anyone who aspires to have better quality audio equipment?
People around here spend their money on expensive luxury and sports cars and get applauded. Someone else wants to spend it on audio gear and gets this?
Get over the hate. The fact is more, more expensive equipment sometimes just is better.
The OP's question was legit. He may not require what he might be contemplating, but that's a different issue. Stop diminishing his concern, and his passion, with the tired old stereotypes.
If you can't afford that lifestyle, sorry. No offense, but most of the audio stuff at BB is trash.
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