One response that seems to be very consistant on this forum is for those of us who do 5000 OCI or less the response seems to be you can choose any oil or whatever is the cheapest as they all are equal for such short OCI. Of course you must select the recommended weight and choose between conventional, synthetic blend, or full synthetic. Would we say SuperTech Full Synthetic, NAPA Full Synthetic or whatever store brand name you like that is usually cheaper provides the same protection and performance that the name brand products up to the 5000 mile point, and it is after that where we start seeing the difference in performance. The recent post regarding the question NAPA Full Synthetic sale or Castrol Magnatec got me thinking as many seem to indicate since the poster was doing 5000 OCI there would be no performance difference between the two for such short term period. Are all oil's equal up to 5,000 miles?
Any Oil for the 5000 OCI
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A series of UOA on the same engine would help determining that
I dont think all oils are equal up to 5,000 miles.
It seems you are thinking every oil is a player of the long-drain game.
It seems you are thinking every oil is a player of the long-drain game.
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That's kind of what I gather from reading posts on this site, so I kind of go along with it. I use Napa full synthetic up to 5,000 miles or so, I've gone over that, but not by much. I use a higher end product up to 7500-8,000 miles...usually I don't go any higher than that because I just don't feel comfortable and my engine is direct injection. I'll also keep it to 5,000 when using Super Tech synthetic. There are people that feel comfortable going 5,000 or even more on a conventional oil...whatever you feel comfortable doing. I've even read about people that go years and countless miles just topping up in their oil burners.
I've gotten away from using conventional oils in general (except in tractors, lawn & garden equipment, and the like) but I think you've picked up a little of the wrong impression. Generally speaking most oils, in most cars, will be fine for 5,000 miles. Manufacturers have continually upped oil capacity vs. displacement, allowing the continued use of conventional or syn blends in engines that, by 70's standards, are high performance. If I had a 90's Honda 4 cyl., I wouldn't consider it dangerous to run it 5K on conventional oil - heck, I think the owners manuals say 6K or 7,500. But on my Cruze, with a turbo 1.4L gas engine, I'd not recommend running syn blend any more than 5K, and preferably not at all - putting conventional in it is pointless and just asking for turbo failure, not to mention it doesn't meet manufacturer spec. It all depends; given that the large majority of engines currently running around here in the states are naturally aspirated, sub 9.5:1 compression, sub 8,000 RPM redline designs that spec. conventional or syn blend oil at 5,000-7,500 mile intervals in non-severe service, yes, most oils are adequate for a 5K OCI. Though there's an ever-increasing percentage of DI, turbo, or otherwise higher-stress engines that will suffer if the lube regimen isn't tailored to them. Full synthetic is overkill in a Vortec 454 that only sees commute driving and a dump run every once in a while, but every owner needs to assess their vehicle type and driving habits and select an oil and change interval accordingly.
It depends WAY more on the car and how it's driven, not necessarily the oil you're using in it.
Can you say 5k is OK for maybe any car made after 2010 or later? Yes, that's probably accurate enough. What about a '83 Ford FTD with 300k miles and a sludged-up V8 with bad oil control rings that gets daily driven to/through Manhattan every day? No way.
Far too many people here are solely focused on if the oil can handle it rather than if their car is a good candidate for it. Current dino oil may last 5k, sure, but it may get contaminated with fuel and combustion blow-by way before that.
Can you say 5k is OK for maybe any car made after 2010 or later? Yes, that's probably accurate enough. What about a '83 Ford FTD with 300k miles and a sludged-up V8 with bad oil control rings that gets daily driven to/through Manhattan every day? No way.
Far too many people here are solely focused on if the oil can handle it rather than if their car is a good candidate for it. Current dino oil may last 5k, sure, but it may get contaminated with fuel and combustion blow-by way before that.
Originally Posted By: mctmatt
One response that seems to be very consistant on this forum is for those of us who do 5000 OCI or less the response seems to be you can choose any oil or whatever is the cheapest as they all are equal for such short OCI. Of course you must select the recommended weight and choose between conventional, synthetic blend, or full synthetic. Would we say SuperTech Full Synthetic, NAPA Full Synthetic or whatever store brand name you like that is usually cheaper provides the same protection and performance that the name brand products up to the 5000 mile point, and it is after that where we start seeing the difference in performance. The recent post regarding the question NAPA Full Synthetic sale or Castrol Magnatec got me thinking as many seem to indicate since the poster was doing 5000 OCI there would be no performance difference between the two for such short term period. Are all oil's equal up to 5,000 miles?
I would be careful about comparing different oils, as there might be a significant difference in additive levels. For example, if your engine had a very minor head gasket leak and brand X had less detergents than brand Y, then you might get more sludge form using the oil with less detergents.
I've looked at UOA results comparing Castrol Edge with GTX over a 5K mile OCI in BMW engines and the difference was so small that it could be ignored. I've not been able to find a similar study of the same oils over a longer OCI, although I suspect that shear resistance might become a factor.
There is a difference in terms of anti wear, extreme pressure and friction modifying additives and it is often a case of you get what you pay for.
In the end the only answer is to do a UOA program to compare different oils at the OCI you are interested in, as the real world result might be a surprise.
For example I get less wear in terms of Iron per mile from a 10K rather than a 5K mile OCI when using the same oil, BUT my wear metals all doubled when using a C3 (Low Zinc additives) oil rather than the recommended A3/B4, so obviously my TDI does not like low ash oils.
One response that seems to be very consistant on this forum is for those of us who do 5000 OCI or less the response seems to be you can choose any oil or whatever is the cheapest as they all are equal for such short OCI. Of course you must select the recommended weight and choose between conventional, synthetic blend, or full synthetic. Would we say SuperTech Full Synthetic, NAPA Full Synthetic or whatever store brand name you like that is usually cheaper provides the same protection and performance that the name brand products up to the 5000 mile point, and it is after that where we start seeing the difference in performance. The recent post regarding the question NAPA Full Synthetic sale or Castrol Magnatec got me thinking as many seem to indicate since the poster was doing 5000 OCI there would be no performance difference between the two for such short term period. Are all oil's equal up to 5,000 miles?
I would be careful about comparing different oils, as there might be a significant difference in additive levels. For example, if your engine had a very minor head gasket leak and brand X had less detergents than brand Y, then you might get more sludge form using the oil with less detergents.
I've looked at UOA results comparing Castrol Edge with GTX over a 5K mile OCI in BMW engines and the difference was so small that it could be ignored. I've not been able to find a similar study of the same oils over a longer OCI, although I suspect that shear resistance might become a factor.
There is a difference in terms of anti wear, extreme pressure and friction modifying additives and it is often a case of you get what you pay for.
In the end the only answer is to do a UOA program to compare different oils at the OCI you are interested in, as the real world result might be a surprise.
For example I get less wear in terms of Iron per mile from a 10K rather than a 5K mile OCI when using the same oil, BUT my wear metals all doubled when using a C3 (Low Zinc additives) oil rather than the recommended A3/B4, so obviously my TDI does not like low ash oils.
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syn power!
It may be acceptable for most engines in the streets. So the bitog advice.
While I read various posts on BITOG I think we need to realize that the improvement in oil is only a portion of why extended oil change intervals are acceptable. Today's engines are so much better than even 15 years ago. The five, six and more speed transmission allow engines to literally loaf along at highway speeds. Overhead cams give these engines so much more torque and direct injection and engine controls keep excess fuel from diluting the oil. We have a newer Doge Caravan with the 3.6 liter PennStar engine that regularly gets 28+ MPG on the highway at about 1600 RPM's. The whole modern engines running hotter is not accurate. Our Ford Explorer has a separate transmission and oil cooler and seldom downshifts when going up a hill. Everything about new engines make them far superior. I have mentioned this before but Consumer Reports in their long term oil test of NY City taxis found absolutely no difference in engine wear between 5000 mile changes and the manufacturers recommended interval. They tested many different oils including synthetics and dino and after literally hundreds of thousand of miles they tore the engines down and inspected them. The engines that went the recommended OCI had no more wear than the 5000 mile OCI's. I would venture to say that NY City taxis are far more demanding than 99% of any other application.
There is no collective advice.
My engines (I4)always seem to want Better better BETTER.
Power density is way up these days, if you are inclined to use the power, you will need whatever the engine promotes as best. The cheapest stout oil ive used so far with good service has been Magnetec SS.
My engines (I4)always seem to want Better better BETTER.
Power density is way up these days, if you are inclined to use the power, you will need whatever the engine promotes as best. The cheapest stout oil ive used so far with good service has been Magnetec SS.
Many of you have given great answers and of course a lot to think about. I am not sure UOA's would answer the quest as they are more individualized and the question I am asking is much broader not to a specific car or engine but just to the general consumer. At the end of the day if John Smith purchased NAPA , OReilly's , Autozone, SuperTech full synthetic or conventional and Bob Smith purchased either the full synthetic or conventional of the high end name brand and both did 5,000 OCI for the next 5 years or even 10 years would we see any difference over time.
Originally Posted By: mctmatt
Many of you have given great answers and of course a lot to think about. I am not sure UOA's would answer the quest as they are more individualized and the question I am asking is much broader not to a specific car or engine but just to the general consumer. At the end of the day if John Smith purchased NAPA , OReilly's , Autozone, SuperTech full synthetic or conventional and Bob Smith purchased either the full synthetic or conventional of the high end name brand and both did 5,000 OCI for the next 5 years or even 10 years would we see any difference over time.
I would be willing to bet it would depend on the overall millage lets say 100,000 in 5 years and 200,000 in 10 years. I bet that you would see no difference if you took the engine apart in 5 years and maybe some difference in 10 years and 200,000 miles? but then you have to ask yourself will you even have the car or truck that long? If you are getting rid of the car every 5 or 6 years who cares? it really will not matter.
I own a 2012 Nissan Pathfinder with a VQ40DE V6 that I take great care of and change my oil every 6,000 miles or so with Mobil 1 and I have 45,000 miles. My friend just traded in the same truck an (09) with just under 200,000 miles and he changed his oil when he felt like it usually 7-9,000 miles with what ever conventional oil and filter that was on sale at Wally Mart and maybe replaced his air filter 3 times the entire time of owning the truck and his V6 was the smoothest quietest Nissan VQ40DE V6 I ever saw and ran great on trade in. I often times I overthink my oil choice and ask myself why am I paying for M1 when I could just use PYB and change it at 5,000 miles I will prob never know any difference?
Many of you have given great answers and of course a lot to think about. I am not sure UOA's would answer the quest as they are more individualized and the question I am asking is much broader not to a specific car or engine but just to the general consumer. At the end of the day if John Smith purchased NAPA , OReilly's , Autozone, SuperTech full synthetic or conventional and Bob Smith purchased either the full synthetic or conventional of the high end name brand and both did 5,000 OCI for the next 5 years or even 10 years would we see any difference over time.
I would be willing to bet it would depend on the overall millage lets say 100,000 in 5 years and 200,000 in 10 years. I bet that you would see no difference if you took the engine apart in 5 years and maybe some difference in 10 years and 200,000 miles? but then you have to ask yourself will you even have the car or truck that long? If you are getting rid of the car every 5 or 6 years who cares? it really will not matter.
I own a 2012 Nissan Pathfinder with a VQ40DE V6 that I take great care of and change my oil every 6,000 miles or so with Mobil 1 and I have 45,000 miles. My friend just traded in the same truck an (09) with just under 200,000 miles and he changed his oil when he felt like it usually 7-9,000 miles with what ever conventional oil and filter that was on sale at Wally Mart and maybe replaced his air filter 3 times the entire time of owning the truck and his V6 was the smoothest quietest Nissan VQ40DE V6 I ever saw and ran great on trade in. I often times I overthink my oil choice and ask myself why am I paying for M1 when I could just use PYB and change it at 5,000 miles I will prob never know any difference?
Originally Posted By: mctmatt
Many of you have given great answers and of course a lot to think about. I am not sure UOA's would answer the quest as they are more individualized and the question I am asking is much broader not to a specific car or engine but just to the general consumer. At the end of the day if John Smith purchased NAPA , OReilly's , Autozone, SuperTech full synthetic or conventional and Bob Smith purchased either the full synthetic or conventional of the high end name brand and both did 5,000 OCI for the next 5 years or even 10 years would we see any difference over time.
I'd bet that you wouldn't see any difference in these engines over 5 or 10 years @ 5K OCI's using any SN rated synthetic. I'm not sure I'd feel the same if the OCI's were extended to 10K.....in other words I'd feel better doing 10K OCI's on Mobil 1 than RK brand synthetic (even though the RK might be fully capable of it).
Many of you have given great answers and of course a lot to think about. I am not sure UOA's would answer the quest as they are more individualized and the question I am asking is much broader not to a specific car or engine but just to the general consumer. At the end of the day if John Smith purchased NAPA , OReilly's , Autozone, SuperTech full synthetic or conventional and Bob Smith purchased either the full synthetic or conventional of the high end name brand and both did 5,000 OCI for the next 5 years or even 10 years would we see any difference over time.
I'd bet that you wouldn't see any difference in these engines over 5 or 10 years @ 5K OCI's using any SN rated synthetic. I'm not sure I'd feel the same if the OCI's were extended to 10K.....in other words I'd feel better doing 10K OCI's on Mobil 1 than RK brand synthetic (even though the RK might be fully capable of it).
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