any fathers who didn't want children here?

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: bigmike
We're really arguing over "loving bonds" here?

Maybe I'm not as Internet savvy as I once thought... Did I stumble on a Days of Our Lives chat board?

It's not that boring a thread, is it? Lol...
I think it's been an interesting discussion. It's good that the both sides (and those in between) get to vent or discuss opinions on here about kids. Most of us will at one time or another in our lives will probably need to deal with the children issue. I think this thread has given really valuable opinions and insight for those contemplating a family.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

take it how you like, i didnt write a honest responce to this thread to "slap you in the face" Im a father, i wrote what i felt in my heart.. that simple. I cant controll how you interpret my feelings.. Im not a professional writer.. I think being a parent is honerable, but there is nothing "superior" about it.. come on over to my place when my son is having a bad nite.. see how superior you feel..

 

[OtisBlkR1]

(that last jab was at humor) I see what your saying.. same difference as Sympathy & Empathy.. And im sure most people can Empathize with having children.. but untill youv been in the shoes of a parent.. i dont buy into anyone saying that "they know" or they "get it". just my opinion.. not law..

 

[PR1955]

You misunderstood me-or maybe I didn't explain properly. Of course those who don't have children can understand a bond with those they care about. Having children in no way makes a person superior to one who has none. No two relationships are the same. My relationship between with my son is different than that with my daughter or with my wife. I love them all equally, but the relationships are different. You have grandchildren. You have raised children. You most likely have a different perspective than someone who has never had them. They can understand up to a point, and they can empathize, but not fully understand. You can't completely understand an experience without being involved in it. Not saying anyone is superior. I have never gone skydiving- I can understand the exilarating rush, but I can't fully appreciate it having never experienced it.

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Originally Posted By: PR1955
You misunderstood me-or maybe I didn't explain properly. Of course those who don't have children can understand a bond with those they care about. Having children in no way makes a person superior to one who has none. No two relationships are the same. My relationship between with my son is different than that with my daughter or with my wife. I love them all equally, but the relationships are different. You have grandchildren. You have raised children. You most likely have a different perspective than someone who has never had them. They can understand up to a point, and they can empathize, but not fully understand. You can't completely understand an experience without being involved in it. Not saying anyone is superior. I have never gone skydiving- I can understand the exilarating rush, but I can't fully appreciate it having never experienced it.


this is well said.. thank you for explaining in good gramar what im trying to express.. and AL im sorry SOME parents have given off that vibe and you feel excluded.. There is nothing in the world (to me) like being a daddy.. but i dont want anyone thinking that i think im better than them for it.. but after a "bad nite" im happy to take some empathy from anyone who wants to give it.. <<---humor again

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: PR1955
I agree that a person who is not a parent can grasp that there is a special bond. I believe that it would be very difficult for them to fully understand the strength of that bond unless they have experienced it, no superior ability, eliteness, or arrogance implied or intended. It' like saying you understand how a broken leg feels if youve never experienced it-you understand that it is painful,and you can have empathy, but if you've never felt it, you can't fully understand the severity.


+1

I thought I got it, till the real, visceral, biological stone age man chemical emotions start when your first baby comes out. I almost passed out!

 

[OtisBlkR1]

Originally Posted By: crinkles
Originally Posted By: PR1955
I agree that a person who is not a parent can grasp that there is a special bond. I believe that it would be very difficult for them to fully understand the strength of that bond unless they have experienced it, no superior ability, eliteness, or arrogance implied or intended. It' like saying you understand how a broken leg feels if youve never experienced it-you understand that it is painful,and you can have empathy, but if you've never felt it, you can't fully understand the severity.


+1

I thought I got it, till the real, visceral, biological stone age man chemical emotions start when your first baby comes out. I almost passed out!


+1 I know love, I love my wife, i loved my dogs, Ive had strong connections with many things in this life.. but none stronger than holding my son the first time. my perspective on so much changed after that.

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: 97tbird

Another add: During the last 10 months, about 8 people IN A ROW at my work place have gone on maternity leave and it is utterly indescribable how much stress and frustration this has caused us. I know it's kinda being selfish, but it really [censored] me off. I mean, heck, we have 7 billion people in the world right now, with diminishing resources! enough already!


hey 97tbird, I'm going on FMLA for six weeks over xmas/new years when my wife gives birth. her due date is 12/10. I know deep down the old ladies I work with are hating on me right now

 

[Cutehumor]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
Adding to my previous post about being marginalized by those that have had children (I have none)......one fella that bragged about being a father and how ones importance in life is based on being a parent, has not exactly been very successful at it. He had three children with all being grown up and out of the house. Of the three, one daughter is an exotic dancer and one son was in jail for a time.
Yep, he must be an exceptional father all right. One in a million. One proud Dad.


I'd say! you know the dad would hate any guy who went out with the exotic dancer daughter.

 

[wander2039]

Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
The kids themselves are the easy part. For most men I know, it's the monster the mommy becomes that makes life hard.


I about fell out of the chair laughing. Didn't plan our kids both whoopsie's but wouldn't trade them for anything. Getting the snip down in a few weeks no more. The wife likes to say just think how rich we'd be without them... yeah but I told her we'd be bored out of our minds.


Got it done today so no more for me. Makes me love my boys even more. Regardless I'd like to have a few more though. Once the wife goes back to work and we get a new house may adopt. Life would just be too boring with kids.

 

[crinkles]

Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
The kids themselves are the easy part. For most men I know, it's the monster the mommy becomes that makes life hard.


I about fell out of the chair laughing. Didn't plan our kids both whoopsie's but wouldn't trade them for anything. Getting the snip down in a few weeks no more. The wife likes to say just think how rich we'd be without them... yeah but I told her we'd be bored out of our minds.


Got it done today so no more for me. Makes me love my boys even more. Regardless I'd like to have a few more though. Once the wife goes back to work and we get a new house may adopt. Life would just be too boring with kids.


Are you walking like a cowboy yet?

wash with iodine soap my friend...

 

[JHZR2]

Originally Posted By: SteveSRT8
Originally Posted By: Al
And I 'could' say that as a parent (with grown kids out of the house)....One can not 'understand' the amount of extra loving time spouses have to give each other unencumbered (without kids-to get in the way)

Hahaha! We are also blissfully childless now!

It's a wonderful thing.


Not to call you guys "old", but I dont want to have to wait until the kids are gone to let the good times roll again...

Need to find a better way. Partitioned house with lots of video cams to keep track of the kids?

 

[SteveSRT8]

Yep, we ran with a split bedroom design, don't go vertical due to noise dampening. You need a 'spread' so the kids can have 3 or 4 bedrooms at the far end of the house with their own restrooms.

Then you put a quality door at the end of the hallway to shut off the commotion when needed!

 

[wander2039]

Originally Posted By: crinkles
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: Eric Smith
Originally Posted By: pottymouth
The kids themselves are the easy part. For most men I know, it's the monster the mommy becomes that makes life hard.


I about fell out of the chair laughing. Didn't plan our kids both whoopsie's but wouldn't trade them for anything. Getting the snip down in a few weeks no more. The wife likes to say just think how rich we'd be without them... yeah but I told her we'd be bored out of our minds.


Got it done today so no more for me. Makes me love my boys even more. Regardless I'd like to have a few more though. Once the wife goes back to work and we get a new house may adopt. Life would just be too boring with kids.


Are you walking like a cowboy yet?

wash with iodine soap my friend...


Was yesterday today it's not so bad. Might go work on the cars in a bit. A little sore that's it.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: Cutehumor
Originally Posted By: 97tbird

Another add: During the last 10 months, about 8 people IN A ROW at my work place have gone on maternity leave and it is utterly indescribable how much stress and frustration this has caused us. I know it's kinda being selfish, but it really [censored] me off. I mean, heck, we have 7 billion people in the world right now, with diminishing resources! enough already!


hey 97tbird, I'm going on FMLA for six weeks over xmas/new years when my wife gives birth. her due date is 12/10. I know deep down the old ladies I work with are hating on me right now

Oh boy.....FMLA? For you? Man 'o man. It's understandable for the female that is obviously needing time to recover and be with the child....no problem there. But when guys take FMLA I gotta tell you, it's kinda silly and in my opinion an abuse of the system (even though it's allowed of course). Don't you have a few days of sick leave or vacation you could take instead of impacting your workplace like that? It's not like you don't come home at the end of the day and have weekends off to spend with your family is it? I'm sorry, I'm really not trying to be rude and I understand your desire to be home....but for generations the father's place has been at work supporting the family and then coming home at the end of the day. Suddenly, everybody wants the same rights as somebody else. Maternity leave is for women....just my opinion. I'm sure many of you out there will now slam my opinion. I guess I'm just old school.

 

[65cuda]

andrewg I agree with you for the most part unless there are complications with the wife or children. For mine I always just took a weeks vacation ( I mean really I had nine months to get ready right) to spend with her and help. FMLA is a good idea, but I sure do see a lot of people abuse it for time off. We have a couple of them at work that barely are able to qualify with enough hours for full time employee. We tell them they have the best part time job you could ask for.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: 65cuda
andrewg I agree with you for the most part unless there are complications with the wife or children. For mine I always just took a weeks vacation ( I mean really I had nine months to get ready right) to spend with her and help. FMLA is a good idea, but I sure do see a lot of people abuse it for time off. We have a couple of them at work that barely are able to qualify with enough hours for full time employee. We tell them they have the best part time job you could ask for.

Yes, certainly should be able to use FMLA IF a REAL medical condition exists where the father must be at home to care for the mother or children. But when a man just wants to be home with the mother because he wants to spend time with his new family......well, that could easily have been planned for well ahead of time as you've alluded to. I don't believe an employer should be required to allow for it under threat of a government crackdown. We have people at my work that try and use every excuse to use FMLA. One woman in particular temporarily fosters children (while getting an allowance to do so from the state). She's gone at least one week every month with some excuse (real or otherwise) to stay home and tend to 'her kids'. It can be real tiresome on the rest of the work crew. Now when a man does it because his wife is having to take care of a baby.....it's just too much. Plan ahead....prepare the grandparents....save your vacation time....and just suck it up that you should be at work.
Just my opinion.

 

[IndyIan]

Heck, in Ontario I could take 37 weeks off work to help take care of a newborn sometime in the first year and get paid ~$400 a week from the province to do it.
The main idea is to help parents and fathers bond with their children without having to worry about work. It seems crazy to me that in the U.S. this isn't done as well.

 

[Cutehumor]

I don't feel guilty taking 6 weeks of FMLA for our first born. 4 weeks out of the 6 weeks will be paid out of my vacation time that I have saved all year. I even bought an extra 5 days of vacation next year out of my salary to spend time with my daughter. Family is more important to me, I guess I'm new school.

 

[crinkles]

i took 5 days paid leave and 5 unpaid to spend a forthnight with each of my 3 kids when they were born. screw work! Priorities...