You usually hear people on here asking what a larger filter could be for their application, b/c they want the benefit of more oil capacity and filtering media.
I'm wondering if there are any benefits to running a smaller filter on a vehicle - the FL-820S/EG2-size filter for my 2003 Tribute Duratec V-6 appears to have a smaller companion for later Duratecs - the FL-500/QS173 filter.
I'm just thinking that a smaller filter might be as good or better, as it may filter faster, b/c there is less filter area for the oil to go through, all other things being equal.
Am I on the right track? Any benefits to a smaller filter on an engine?
Any benefits to a smaller filter?
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Less oil capacity mean a quicker warm up to operating temperature which means less startup wear. I have seen no data that demonstrates that filters larger than OEM supplied offer any benefits. Smaller filters are greener for the environment.
Larger filter by design has more surface area for oil to pass through so is less restrictive and more dirt holding capacity.
However, this is only really beneficial on extended changes, periods where you might be cleaning out deposits and potentially break in periods.
Otherwise the only other benefit is clearance.
If you are not on an extended OCI, then a regular size filter is more environmentally friendly. If you are on an extended OCI, then the large size filter is environmentally friendly.
Interestingly Honda backspec'd most of their 4-cylinders to the smaller filter a while back, so there's likely SOME sort of benefit.
The urban legend back then was that the smaller filter improved oil pressure and hence helped with VTEC engagement. Not sure I believe that.
I don't like the smaller filters. The oil velocity through them is higher than a larger filter, that can push contaminents through the media vs the larger one where the resident time is longer.
granted that you are following factory servicing intervals and such (air filter change, oil change,oil filter change, etc.), the current (yet smaller than the past) oil filter still capable of performing it's job with enough reservations to go beyond what the factory spec'ed beyond OCI intervals.
In the 80s, my factory nissan stanza manual calls for replacing oil filter every other oil change.
Nowadays, even when I keep using 4967 on all the toys I serviced (8kkms oci with conventional oil), when opening oil filter to inspect the media, I don't see a long of insoluables or so captured in the media.
This leads me to believe that (a) even with smaller filering area in a smaller oil filter can, there's still enough surface area within the OCI period to provide the much needed filtering service with reservations. (b) weight and cost savings can be had as opposed to a larger oil filter.
Q.
This is only speculation, so take it for what its worth. I think one of the benefits of running a smaller filter is its higher burst strength. There are two reasons why I think this to be true:
1) Depending on the manufacturer, they may be stamping all or some of their filters out of the same sheet of metal, so a taller can will result in a thinner can. This is almost all speculation, and I have no facts to back this up.
2) This is less speculation, and more fact based on math: A taller can will have more surface area, and therefor be under more stress at the same PSI rating. The amount of force on the inside of the can from the oil pressure increases with the surface area. Using the formula: 2 π r2 + 2 π r h, and dimensions from the Purolator website, the FL-280 equivalent has 144.5 sq in. of surface area, the FL-500 has 118.7 sq in. of surface area. Assuming a normal cruising (2500rpm) oil pressure is 45 psi, that means that the FL-280 has 6504 lbs of force spread over its walls, where as the FL-500 has 5341.5 lbs of force. The difference between the two increases as the RPMs increase. I know people who race cars use the smallest filter possible to decrease the risk of a blow-out. Some even use hose clamps to keep the can from stretching.
That being said, most oil filters have a bust rating of over 300psi. The engine's internal bypass should kick-in well before that. If you get a well-functioning Duratec to burst the can on RPMs alone, I will eat my hat.
In a real world setting, I see no issue with running a longer oil filter.
Addy, have you looked for pics of the EG2/MPH2 element? IIRC we have seen posts of that size fram that, while larger, had less pleats in the element. In this case the larger filter may not have more media, surface area or capacity.
I completely understand your dilemma. I don't have any problem with the smaller filters however that is what is spec'd for my car. I'd like to say I'd run it with no concerns but I'm not sure I'd be able to if I was in your shoes either.
Holden had complaints inn the early 80s with the tappet noise lasting too long, when compared to the Japanese imports that were around at the time.
They switched to a smaller volume filter to get the oil pressure to rise quicker...by small, it was about the size of a 10241, which is "standard" on a lot of stuff.
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Interestingly Honda backspec'd most of their 4-cylinders to the smaller filter a while back, so there's likely SOME sort of benefit.
The urban legend back then was that the smaller filter improved oil pressure and hence helped with VTEC engagement. Not sure I believe that.
I doubt that dealers or quick lubes use a smaller filter as a benefit to the consumer. It is probally more because if this filter fits then why stock two.
There is a short version of that FL500 that could be used as well. Look up something like a 08 Dodge Caliber or Chevy Truck with 4.8L or larger V8.
I think everyone agrees that more filtering media is better.
The question is about the can, and I can see how a bigger can would result in more startup noise even with an 100% working ADBV.
But then comes the question of filter mounting, a filter mounted open end up would be 100% full of oil at all times, so startup noise would be the same with any filter.
As to oil volume and temps - a small can filter would be best for a short tripper. A big can would be better for a sludger/hot engine when doing highway/mountain runs, I'm just not sure by how much; maybe some of you have measured the oil temp decrease in this scenario.
Originally Posted By: zorobabel
As to oil volume and temps - a small can filter would be best for a short tripper. A big can would be better for a sludger/hot engine when doing highway/mountain runs, I'm just not sure by how much;
I think every vehicle should use the big Ford FL1A Motorcraft or Fram PH8A size filter. The filter looks like it holds a quart of oil itself and I use it on my 96 Dodge Ram that has a shorter filter. Ford used this size for 50+ years on everything including tractors and yes bigger is better!
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If you have an engine that holds very little in the sump & uses a tiny teacup sized filter (like my wife's xB) and needs little to no oil top-off, an oversize filter will allow you to extend your OCIs-because you'll have more oil in the system. The xB takes 3.25 quarts to fill with the factory size filter, 3.75 with the much bigger Puro P/L20195 oversize. It makes a difference, and it still builds oil pressure and warms up EXACTLY the same!
Originally Posted By: fpracha
Originally Posted By: zorobabel
As to oil volume and temps - a small can filter would be best for a short tripper. A big can would be better for a sludger/hot engine when doing highway/mountain runs, I'm just not sure by how much;
The Honda S2000 came from the factory with a larger oil filter(P/N 15400-PCX-004), the largest that Honda made(for cars). I went one step farther with my oversize Baldwin filter(B7042) so my engine takes one more qt. of oil, that is 20% more oil and yes my oil runs cooler and last longer. The S2000 oil filter won't fit my sons '09 Civic, to big.
ROD
^^^^Perhaps you should post those comments on the 'any benefits of oversize filters' thread. Seems many skeptics on those benefits you mention.
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