Another wheel hub assembly brand.

The only low cost chinese hub bearing that I ever got good service from was WJB available on RockAuto. I have used them several time for cost savings reasons for a few customers and never had a return. I actually replaced both front hubs on my 08 CTS with one Moog and one WJB as a test. They both been on over a year and so far so good. The longest one I have running is on a customer's car at 2 years and I have the car now for ac service and it still drives quiet.

I won't touch an O'rielly or Autozone hub - never had one last more than a year - 5 times and I stopped buying.
 
Didn't one of the hub/bearing manufacturers have a proprietary process which made their bearings feel and sound rough when new out of the box, but after run a few days were smooth as silk? Could this possibly be the case, and it's actually not a bad bearing? I saw nothing really describing the bearing failure mode, so is it just noise? Is it loose? Seized up?
 
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by Dave9
What vehicle? 100 ft-lbs seems a bit lower than ?? the average vehicle, and a lot lower than some. I mean for the axle nut.

I've had acceptable life from some Chinese parts, but don't want Chinese bearings. Throw a good bearing in a Chinese hub and maybe it'll be okay.

Torque does seem very low. I have had 180 ft lbs on a Chrysler to 250 ft lbs on a Mercury.


You're more than welcome to look it up. Vehicle is stated above.


Okay I did find a couple forum topics which seems to elaborate on this. It appears that some info was stated wrong and the 100 ft lbs is ONLY for the hub to knuckle bolts and it is 185 ft lbs for the axle nut.

Quote
in the service manual they say Half Shaft Hub/Bearing Nut : 100 ft lbs, Halfshaft nuts : 185 ft lbs


https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/axle-nut-100-185-lbs-any-updates-2490185/#post23589985

There are people muddying the waters saying other axles take as low as 100ft lbs, but that's only consistent with smaller vehicle drivetrains, not on an SUV axle nut that size.

https://www.jeepcommander.com/threads/front-axle-nut-halfshaft-nut-torque.19301/

Other Jeeps also have ft-lbs closer to 200. Do what you want, but I'd use 185 ft lbs.
 
Last edited:
Received the new one today. Is it normal for greese to be coming out of these areas?

20200518_171439.jpg


20200518_171444.jpg
 
Originally Posted by Dave9
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen
Originally Posted by Lubener
Originally Posted by Dave9
What vehicle? 100 ft-lbs seems a bit lower than ?? the average vehicle, and a lot lower than some. I mean for the axle nut.

I've had acceptable life from some Chinese parts, but don't want Chinese bearings. Throw a good bearing in a Chinese hub and maybe it'll be okay.

Torque does seem very low. I have had 180 ft lbs on a Chrysler to 250 ft lbs on a Mercury.


You're more than welcome to look it up. Vehicle is stated above.


Okay I did find a couple forum topics which seems to elaborate on this. It appears that some info was stated wrong and the 100 ft lbs is ONLY for the hub to knuckle bolts and it is 185 ft lbs for the axle nut.

Quote
in the service manual they say Half Shaft Hub/Bearing Nut : 100 ft lbs, Halfshaft nuts : 185 ft lbs


https://www.jeepforum.com/forum/f67/axle-nut-100-185-lbs-any-updates-2490185/#post23589985

There are people muddying the waters saying other axles take as low as 100ft lbs, but that's only consistent with smaller vehicle drivetrains, not on an SUV axle nut that size.

https://www.jeepcommander.com/threads/front-axle-nut-halfshaft-nut-torque.19301/

Other Jeeps also have ft-lbs closer to 200. Do what you want, but I'd use 185 ft lbs.







Thanks for the info.
 
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen
Received the new one today. Is it normal for greese to be coming out of these areas?


Yes that's a beautiful thing
 
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen



No, I used to live in upstate N.Y. they spray a chemical on the road which is horrible on vehicles. The bearing slid right on. Only some tapping with a rubber mallet to get it seated. I used a torque wrench which is less than a year old so I doubt it is defective. I did spot some gray colored grease. When I spun it by hand it did make some noise that I would say was in excess. It also did seem to have a tight spot when I first spun it.


Evening, have some info for you. Had a call with my rep.

Did you do a run out with an indicator? ( should be between.001 to .004 and closer to 4)

Is that axle shaft OEM or ever been damaged/replaced? ( or the vehicle at the hub bolts ever damaged?

Can you get a sample of grease say maybe with a straw or coffee stirrer?

That's a rolled assembly as I suspected so no field disassembly.

It did pass a spin test before it left the facility- all are tested. ( doesn't mean it wasn't damaged after the fact)

All of this is from the pics and your information without disassembly ( which would require grinding off the rolled end)

For it to roar as described and it getting tight is an indicator either

The bearing had too little grease or it was otherwise contaminated

The spatial alignment between the axle and hub housing is out of tolerance. ( heavy axial runout)

That unit is a single double inner race loaded over the bearing sleeve then roll pressed against the race. That eliminates any internal misalignment and clearance setting ( unlike other models)

On this unit- the nut torque is specified by the OEM for the vehicle( which is what's published)- the hub assembly can withstand greater than 200 lbs ft without stressing the bearing ( which is all the hub manufacturer is concerned with) This is not an assembly that has to be compressed/relaxed then torqued. ( there are many that have to be)

So most likely you got an assembly with no or compromised grease or there is some form of axial load making the bearing ride against the end rather than along the profile and most likely compromising the contact angle.

It was suggested to indicate ( complete TIR) and spin with the hub bolts torqued then do it again with the axle nut installed and torqued to see if there is a difference.

It appears the new one is properly loaded with grease- can you scrape out some of the old one before you return for credit?
 
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen



No, I used to live in upstate N.Y. they spray a chemical on the road which is horrible on vehicles. The bearing slid right on. Only some tapping with a rubber mallet to get it seated. I used a torque wrench which is less than a year old so I doubt it is defective. I did spot some gray colored grease. When I spun it by hand it did make some noise that I would say was in excess. It also did seem to have a tight spot when I first spun it.


Evening, have some info for you. Had a call with my rep.

Did you do a run out with an indicator? ( should be between.001 to .004 and closer to 4)

Is that axle shaft OEM or ever been damaged/replaced? ( or the vehicle at the hub bolts ever damaged?

Can you get a sample of grease say maybe with a straw or coffee stirrer?

That's a rolled assembly as I suspected so no field disassembly.

It did pass a spin test before it left the facility- all are tested. ( doesn't mean it wasn't damaged after the fact)

All of this is from the pics and your information without disassembly ( which would require grinding off the rolled end)

For it to roar as described and it getting tight is an indicator either

The bearing had too little grease or it was otherwise contaminated

The spatial alignment between the axle and hub housing is out of tolerance. ( heavy axial runout)

That unit is a single double inner race loaded over the bearing sleeve then roll pressed against the race. That eliminates any internal misalignment and clearance setting ( unlike other models)

On this unit- the nut torque is specified by the OEM for the vehicle( which is what's published)- the hub assembly can withstand greater than 200 lbs ft without stressing the bearing ( which is all the hub manufacturer is concerned with) This is not an assembly that has to be compressed/relaxed then torqued. ( there are many that have to be)

So most likely you got an assembly with no or compromised grease or there is some form of axial load making the bearing ride against the end rather than along the profile and most likely compromising the contact angle.

It was suggested to indicate ( complete TIR) and spin with the hub bolts torqued then do it again with the axle nut installed and torqued to see if there is a difference.

It appears the new one is properly loaded with grease- can you scrape out some of the old one before you return for credit?







I already sent it back. However the one I have on that i am about to replace i can do the same tests on that one. The one I just bought was moog. The axke shift is oem and has no damage.
 
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen


I already sent it back. However the one I have on that i am about to replace i can do the same tests on that one. The one I just bought was moog. The axke shift is oem and has no damage.


Please if you would- a few people are now interested ( especially with 2 units allegedly failing- that hits big companies in the QA dept)

Assuming its a Timken manufactured and assembled one ( you never can be so sure these days)

Theres really nothing you could have done installation wise to cause either an issue with the grease ( unless you poured valve grinding compound in it) or torqueing the axle. ( the assembly can take more loading than the vehicle will allow)

We would believe that anything axial load wise would be hard to hide and not know about
 
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR
Originally Posted by Micahmcmeen


I already sent it back. However the one I have on that i am about to replace i can do the same tests on that one. The one I just bought was moog. The axke shift is oem and has no damage.


Please if you would- a few people are now interested ( especially with 2 units allegedly failing- that hits big companies in the QA dept)

Assuming its a Timken manufactured and assembled one ( you never can be so sure these days)

Theres really nothing you could have done installation wise to cause either an issue with the grease ( unless you poured valve grinding compound in it) or torqueing the axle. ( the assembly can take more loading than the vehicle will allow)

We would believe that anything axial load wise would be hard to hide and not know about






I plan on doing it this weekend or maybe Friday. I will coment on this post and send you a message just to be sure.
 
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR

That is 100% false. Timken manufactures all of their branded bearings and I challenge anyone to provide actual proof to the contrary.

There are some cases among manufacturers where small volume specialty bearings are made by a different manufacturer and branded due to cost of tooling up or other factors but this isn't one of them. ( those are rare anyway)

It says clearly on the box of a Timken bearing that "Timken service parts are manufactured by Timken or carefully selected suppliers" or something amongst those lines. Regardless, I've had a mostly positive experience with Timken bearings except a bum one from Amazon. They've been using CoA stickers as a way to track down a fake - bearings are as pirated as software.

But looking at catalog imagery, unit hub assemblies I've seen for the cars I care for sold by Timken are from the OEM supplier for that model - be it NTN, NSK or Koyo. It would make sense for Timken to outsource for things they don't have the tooling or significant demand for.
 
Last edited:
Originally Posted by nthach
Originally Posted by ABN_CBT_ENGR

That is 100% false. Timken manufactures all of their branded bearings and I challenge anyone to provide actual proof to the contrary.

There are some cases among manufacturers where small volume specialty bearings are made by a different manufacturer and branded due to cost of tooling up or other factors but this isn't one of them. ( those are rare anyway)


It says clearly on the box of a Timken bearing that "Timken service parts are manufactured by Timken or carefully selected suppliers" or something amongst those lines. Regardless, I've had a mostly positive experience with Timken bearings except a bum one from Amazon. They've been using CoA stickers as a way to track down a fake - bearings are as pirated as software.

But looking at catalog imagery, unit hub assemblies I've seen for the cars I care for sold by Timken are from the OEM supplier for that model - be it NTN, NSK or Koyo. It would make sense for Timken to outsource for things they don't have the tooling or significant demand for.


Agree totally, I said that but also look at the carefully selected wording. "suppliers" and "service parts" ( those aren't the bearings proper)

What that generally means is components such as the hub castings (finished or non finished) for the finished branded assembly, application specific seals and things like that. This is no different than when a car OEM farms out part "X" to a 3 tiered vendor. That's not the same as Chevrolet making a Ford for them.

Most companies are not going to build a foundry or even commission one for a mold set so they will farm things like that out.

Remember this, most of bearing technology is highly secretive IP in terms of metallurgy, internal geometry, metal treatment and so forth- if you commission another competitor to make your product - you are giving them all that and don't think a secrecy agreement means anything- it doesn't.

I'm well aware of bearing counterfeits- I deal with them and control measures all the time.
 
Just my two cents:

On the axle half shaft/hub bearing nut nut torque: The factory service manual for the Commander clearly states 100 ft/lbs. I am not sure where some others have gotten the 185 number, but when I had my Commander apart a couple of years ago, I used 100 ft/lbs for the hub nut axle shaft torque as per the FSM and it has been fine.

Hope this hub bearing problem gets resolved for you.

Andrew S.

2008 Jeep Comander 4x4 4.7 V8
2010 Lexus RX350 AWD
2004 Dodge Dakota 4WD 4.7 V8
1996 Jeep Grand Cherokee 4x4 4.0
 
vwmaniaman said:
I bought a Timken hub assembly for a Chrysler T&C and it failed in less than a month. Made in China. From AAp, took it back and got refund. Ordered one off RA that was China too, but worked fine. Very spotty quality from China it seems.
Click to expand...
I remember at AAP we had some hubs made in Korea that were great
 
If that Bearing Nut Sets the bearing Preload, 100ft/lb vs 185 ft/lb is quiet the discrepancy with that said it looks like (based on the above photos and current RA Timken Photos) that this hub bearing assembly is pre-loaded using an Orbital Forming process so the bearing nut should not really affect it.

Another thing to Note - NTN published this about orbital forming - https://www.ntnglobal.com/en/news/new_products/news20060804.html Which was from 06. My Jeep (XJ) FSM states 185ft/lb but this was likely before this process was common. Another thing to note I have SKF Hubs and the RA photos show "typical hubs", the one I received actually appear to be orbital formed.
 
^ Then even less reason not to use 185 ft lb on a nut that size... unless someone knows of some alien tech this particular Jeep uses, that other Jeeps and other vehicles using similar size and design, don't.

Can anyone think of any other vehicle with >30mm axle nuts that only torques to 100 ft lb?
 
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