Another Turbulence Incident.

[JHZR2]

Just like the idiots who take it off when we land, while the sign is on, and while I am still moving the airplane. If I have to jam on the brakes (and it has happened) then every single one of those people is at risk, and they put others at risk.

This happened on the tarmac at IAH on Monday.

Some idiot got up to go to the bathroom, the bell rang, Captain slammed the brakes and claimed the whole runway had to stop (implying delays) due to this. The guy came out of the lavatory waving, but it was the walk of shame. Captain reiterated policy when landing to avoid another taxiing issue.

 

[dumkid]

At 55 MPH in a car, you're strapped in, but at ten times the speed, you reckon it's OK to take off your belt?

To be fair there's less stuff to hit in the sky so it might be less dangerous than at 55mph in a car

I'm not saying it's a good idea to take your seatbelt off, but it might be a less bad idea

 

[Astro14]

To be fair there's less stuff to hit in the sky so it might be less dangerous than at 55mph in a car

I'm not saying it's a good idea to take your seatbelt off, but it might be a less bad idea

Clearly, there is “less stuff to hit” - but there is some, or that passenger would be alive and those other folks would be uninjured.

The problem is: we can’t see the stuff (turbulence) that we might hit. We can’t see that it’s there.

 

[Astro14]

This happened on the tarmac at IAH on Monday.

Some idiot got up to go to the bathroom, the bell rang, Captain slammed the brakes and claimed the whole runway had to stop (implying delays) due to this. The guy came out of the lavatory waving, but it was the walk of shame. Captain reiterated policy when landing to avoid another taxiing issue.

Ironically, Houston was the site of one of the worst experiences I’ve had with that type of passenger behavior.

We landed about a half an hour late in thunderstorms, rain and heavy wind. We were on the very north runway, 26 R. So, long taxi. While we were waiting to cross 26L on our way back, someone got up. FA call up.

Tower clears us to cross the runway, but we can’t because we have people up, now tower is upset, the airplanes behind me are upset, and I get on the PA and tell folks that not only are they delaying our ability to taxi, but they are delaying the airplanes behind us and to please take their seats immediately.

Naturally, we have to wait for them to be seated, the flight attendants to check in, and then tower to clear us, which takes another 15 minutes because they have aircraft landing on 26 L.

All the fault of some idiot in the back who couldn’t wait. 230 people on board a 767, all waiting for you, pal.

Then, when we are literally 200 feet from the gate, I get a call from the back that somebody’s up. I stopped the airplane and growled at them. I said the reason that we spent 15 minutes not moving was because somebody got up. With anyone out of their seat, I cannot move the airplane. If you are up, you are the reason that we have spent so long taxiing, and I will not move this airplane until everyone returns to their seat. We are 100 feet from the gate, so, if you want to get there, and we all do, take your seat immediately.

Talk about stupidity, rubbing salt in the wound of a long night. The problem in dealing with the public is that half the people are below average intelligence. Think about how dumb the average person is, and realize that half the people in the back of my airplane are even dumber than that.

 

[burbguy82]

To be fair there's less stuff to hit in the sky so it might be less dangerous than at 55mph in a car

I'm not saying it's a good idea to take your seatbelt off, but it might be a less bad idea

Its perception, and complacency. In a big airplane, you are shielded from of your senses. There are tremendous forces at work, inches away from you, outside, but the perception is calm.

Reports on this Asian airliner recently, was that is dropped and climbed from 100 to 300 ft. It you are not secured to the aircraft, and it drops 100ft, and then climbs 300ft instantly, their is no difference in that or you jumping off a 100ft cliff. Maybe slightly different since the plane would not instantly change direction or stop, but real close.

I am surprised that more people did not die on that flight.

 

[The_Eric]

Ironically, Houston was the site of one of the worst experiences I’ve had with that type of passenger behavior.

We landed about a half an hour late in thunderstorms, rain and heavy wind. We were on the very north runway, 26 R. So, long taxi. While we were waiting to cross 26L on our way back, someone got up. FA call up.

Tower clears us to cross the runway, but we can’t because we have people up, now towers upset, the airplanes behind me are upset, and I get on the PA and tell folks that not only are they delaying our ability to taxi, but they are delaying the airplanes behind us and to please take their seats immediately.

Naturally, we have to wait for them to be seated, the flight of tennis to check in, and then tower to clear us, which takes another 15 minutes because they have aircraft landing on 26 L.

All the fault of some idiot in the back who couldn’t wait. 230 people on board, all waiting for you, pal.

Then, when we are literally 200 feet from the gate, I get a call from the back that somebody’s up. I stopped the airplane and growled at them. I said the reason that we spent 15 minutes not moving was because somebody got up. With anyone out of their seat, I cannot move the airplane. If you are up, you are the reason that we have spent so long taxiing, and I will not move this airplane until everyone returns to their seat. We are 100 feet from the gate, so, if you want to get there, and we all do, take your seat immediately.

Talk about stupidity, rubbing salt in the wound of a long night. The problem in dealing with the public is that half the people are below average intelligence. Think about how dumb the average person is, and realize that half the people in the back of my airplane are even dumber than that.

Is that a company policy or an FAA reg that you have to stop moving if a passenger gets up while moving on the ground?

 

[Astro14]

Is that a company policy or an FAA reg that you have to stop moving if a passenger gets up while moving on the ground?

Both. I am required to take the safest course of action, which, if the airplane is stopped, is to remain stopped.

I taxi at 25 knots. About 30MPH. So, it’s like driving down the street ant 30 MPH and one of the kids unbuckles in the back of the minivan and gets out of their seat.

What is the safest course of action?

if you are stopped at a red light, and the kid gets up, do you go on Green? What’s the safest course of action?

When crossing a runway (high threat environment), if we are already moving, I will stay moving, to exit that high threat area, then stop.

On that night in Houston, the passengers got up while the airplane was, in fact, stopped. So, no, I’m not gonna start moving again. The safest course action is to remain stopped, clearly, despite the frustration of aircraft control, and the literally thousands of people on the aircraft behind us who are now impacted adversely by this one moron, who got out of their seat

The world is full of morons, and many of them think that when the airplane is stopped, it’s time for them to get up. Not realizing that I have to move the airplane nearly a mile across intersecting runways, taxiways and in conjunction with air traffic control direction, and other airplanes moving/landing/taking off at high speed.

Because air travel is so safe, everybody assumes that there’s just not much going on.

However, runway, incursions, ground collisions, and all that remain constant threat for which we are hyper-vigilant. There have been some horrible crashes on the ground on airports. Being on the ground in an airport is a high threat environment. It is not safe. You aren’t just driving through the neighborhood.

Somebody getting up when I’m trying to be hyper-vigilant really takes me off my game. It means I now have to divert attention to something else in addition to the important tasks of not Crossing a runway with landing traffic or something of that nature. It reduces the safety margin for me while I’m taxiing the airplane.

It’s just plain stupid.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Social Darwinism is the correct term for this event.
If I could have a penny for every time I argued with older members of my family about this, including my mom.

It's funny sometimes to have these discussions with older parents. They just forget. My mother goes on about how things are so bad today and I'll jokingly say "So tell me mom, how was that concert in Woodstock back in '69?", at which point I'll get a scowl.

 

[4WD]

The very first thing I saw had Boeing and I immediately knew it was idiots instead - folks need to stay away from these outlets and pay attention to who really owns them

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

Both. I am required to take the safest course of action, which, if the airplane is stopped, is to remain stopped.

I taxi at 25 knots. About 30MPH. So, it’s like driving down the street ant 30 MPH and one of the kids unbuckles in the back of the minivan and gets out of their seat.

What is the safest course of action?

if you are stopped at a red light, and the kid gets up, do you go on Green? What’s the safest course of action?

When crossing a runway (high threat environment), if we are already moving, I will stay moving, to exit that high threat area, then stop.

On that night in Houston, the passengers got up while the airplane was, in fact, stopped. So, no, I’m not gonna start moving again. The safest course action is to remain stopped, clearly, despite the frustration of aircraft control, and the literally thousands of people on the aircraft behind us who are now impacted adversely by this one moron, who got out of their seat

The world is full of morons, and many of them think that when the airplane is stopped, it’s time for them to get up. Not realizing that I have to move the airplane nearly a mile across intersecting runways, taxiways and in conjunction with air traffic control direction, and other airplanes moving/landing/taking off at high speed.

Because air travel is so safe, everybody assumes that there’s just not much going on.

However, runway, incursions, ground collisions, and all that remain constant threat for which we are hyper-vigilant. There have been some horrible crashes on the ground on airports. Being on the ground in an airport is a high threat environment. It is not safe. You aren’t just driving through the neighborhood.

Somebody getting up when I’m trying to be hyper-vigilant really takes me off my game. It means I now have to divert attention to something else in addition to the important tasks of not Crossing a runway with landing traffic or something of that nature. It reduces the safety margin for me while I’m taxiing the airplane.

It’s just plain stupid.

Passengers suffer from this anxiety about wanting to get off the plane as quickly as possible. They can have anxiety because their carry-on had to be placed in a bin a couple of rows behind them. Imagine the psychology where people would rather get out of their seat and stand in the aisle rather than sit and get up once the row in front of you has grabbed their bag and moved. I guess people stand up crowding the aisle because they don't want someone behind them to get in front of them? A race to the exits !

 

[dumkid]

I taxi at 25 knots. About 30MPH. So, it’s like driving down the street ant 30 MPH and one of the kids unbuckles in the back of the minivan and gets out of their seat.

Tap the brakes hard enough to knock them over but not enough to hurt them is what I do

I don't have kids, but I do this to my siblings because they don't listen to me
But they might listen to the back of the seat they just smashed into

Can airplanes stop suddenly or are they too heavy? I know they have decent brakes

 

[Astro14]

Tap the brakes hard enough to knock them over but not enough to hurt them is what I do

I don't have kids, but I do this to my siblings because they don't listen to me
But they might listen to the back of the seat they just smashed into

Can airplanes stop suddenly or are they too heavy? I know they have decent brakes

They can stop very suddenly. The brakes are designed for a hard stop from roughly 200 MPH. A stop that most cars can't match in terms of deceleration rate. You've probably never felt it because there was never a need. Now, they are really touchy, and hard to stop smoothly, but oh man, if you ever need to stop quickly - you can stop quickly.

 

[dumkid]

They can stop very suddenly. The brakes are designed for a hard stop from roughly 200 MPH. A stop that most cars can't match in terms of deceleration rate. You've probably never felt it because there was never a need. Now, they are really touchy, and hard to stop smoothly, but oh man, if you ever need to stop quickly - you can stop quickly.

That's what I figured. Every landing I've been on was smooth and gentle deceleration, so I wasn't sure how much they were capable of

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Up here in Canada, it’s Transport Canada that says airlines cannot taxi ( or pushback ) if all passengers are not in their seats with seatbelts.

You can take a overcrowded city bus to the airport, with people standing, no seatbelts but it’s not considered dangerous

Same for airline crews. We board overcrowded employee shuttle busses , people standing with nap sacks hitting you in the face, no seatbelts, shuttling us from the employee parking lot to the airport. Not long ago, the driver hit the brakes and people went into the front windshield.

After I survive my ride to the terminal, if a passenger needs to use the washroom, I have to stop the aircraft, advise ATC, disrupt traffic flows because it’s considered too dangerous even if they just got off a city bus ( or passenger shuttle bus from off site parking ) that was travelling a lot faster.

Travelling by car/ bus is a lot more dangerous ( or pilots taking the airport employee cattle bus up here ).

 

[The_Eric]

Both. I am required to take the safest course of action, which, if the airplane is stopped, is to remain stopped.

I taxi at 25 knots. About 30MPH. So, it’s like driving down the street ant 30 MPH and one of the kids unbuckles in the back of the minivan and gets out of their seat.

What is the safest course of action?

if you are stopped at a red light, and the kid gets up, do you go on Green? What’s the safest course of action?

When crossing a runway (high threat environment), if we are already moving, I will stay moving, to exit that high threat area, then stop.

On that night in Houston, the passengers got up while the airplane was, in fact, stopped. So, no, I’m not gonna start moving again. The safest course action is to remain stopped, clearly, despite the frustration of aircraft control, and the literally thousands of people on the aircraft behind us who are now impacted adversely by this one moron, who got out of their seat

The world is full of morons, and many of them think that when the airplane is stopped, it’s time for them to get up. Not realizing that I have to move the airplane nearly a mile across intersecting runways, taxiways and in conjunction with air traffic control direction, and other airplanes moving/landing/taking off at high speed.

Because air travel is so safe, everybody assumes that there’s just not much going on.

However, runway, incursions, ground collisions, and all that remain constant threat for which we are hyper-vigilant. There have been some horrible crashes on the ground on airports. Being on the ground in an airport is a high threat environment. It is not safe. You aren’t just driving through the neighborhood.

Somebody getting up when I’m trying to be hyper-vigilant really takes me off my game. It means I now have to divert attention to something else in addition to the important tasks of not Crossing a runway with landing traffic or something of that nature. It reduces the safety margin for me while I’m taxiing the airplane.

It’s just plain stupid.

You seem like a smart and well learned individual, something that not everyone is. Plus you've been in this world for longer than many have been alive.. It seems to me like a mix of lack of knowledge/understanding, differing norms in other parts of society (like not being belted in on busses and trains and yes, selfishness too.

Perhaps if we implement seatbelt rules on other public transportation and teach people why we need to wear them and the pitfalls of not wearing them (on planes) then things would be different?

 

[Astro14]

Passengers suffer from this anxiety about wanting to get off the plane as quickly as possible. They can have anxiety because their carry-on had to be placed in a bin a couple of rows behind them. Imagine the psychology where people would rather get out of their seat and stand in the aisle rather than sit and get up once the row in front of you has grabbed their bag and moved. I guess people stand up crowding the aisle because they don't want someone behind them to get in front of them? A race to the exits !

I've got over 800,000 miles on United alone as a paying passenger. At least double that doing non-rev and deadhead. A few hundred thousand on other airlines.

I'm very familiar with every facet of idiotic behavior. I see it all the time.

The people who stand up immediately, and block everyone else, as if that is going to somehow, hasten their own departure, are in that category.

I get that flying is stressful.

It is more stressful when you're stupid.

 

[Astro14]

You seem like a smart and well learned individual, something that not everyone is. Plus you've been in this world for longer than many have been alive.. It seems to me like a mix of lack of knowledge/understanding, differing norms in other parts of society (like not being belted in on busses and trains and yes, selfishness too.

Perhaps if we implement seatbelt rules on other public transportation and teach people why we need to wear them and the pitfalls of not wearing them (on planes) then things would be different?

Many states have implemented those rules on other forms of transportation, like Hotel Shuttle buses.

Actual compliance rate among the passengers on those vans?

Somewhere under 5%. Unless you're on the crew van with a flight crew - then, it's darn near 100%.

Hmmm....

 

[c502cid]

My seat belt is always at a minimum snug, due to a lesson I learned long ago. I had my seat belt on very loose and hit some moderate+ turbulence. I thought my innards were bruised when the seat belt caught me from going any more upward. Living on the front range flying in/out of DEN and COS I'm pretty familiar with being bounced around.

One thought though, if the airlines quit publishing 35 minute legal connections you'd eliminate a bunch of people standing up early.

 

[Astro14]

My seat belt is always at a minimum snug, due to a lesson I learned long ago. I had my seat belt on very loose and hit some moderate+ turbulence. I thought my innards were bruised when the seat belt caught me from going any more upward. Living on the front range flying in/out of DEN and COS I'm pretty familiar with being bounced around.

One thought though, if the airlines quit publishing 35 minute legal connections you'd eliminate a bunch of people standing up early.

I’m glad you keep your seatbelt fastened, and while I agree that that connection time is too tight, I have had many people say to me, “I’ve only got 15 minutes until my next flight!”.

But when you look at their phone, that’s the boarding time. And you can get just about anywhere on the B concourse at DIA within 15 minutes.

But they act like it’s a crisis even though boarding will be open for another 30-40 minutes after that.

In actuality they have 55 minutes before the flight departs and about 50 minutes before the door closes, but they’re gonna elbow their way to get their bag in front of everyone else because “I’ve only got 15 minutes!!”

 

[c502cid]

I’m glad you keep your seatbelt fastened, and while I agree that that connection time is too tight, I have had many people say to me, “I’ve only got 15 minutes until my next flight!”.

But when you look at their phone, that’s the boarding time. And you can get just about anywhere on the B concourse at DIA within 15 minutes.

But they act like it’s a crisis even though boarding will be open for another 30-40 minutes after that.

In actuality they have 55 minutes before the flight departs and about 50 minutes before the door closes, but they’re gonna elbow their way to get their bag in front of everyone else because “I’ve only got 15 minutes!!”

There is a lot of truth to that, people just don't understand. At DEN, with so many flights on A con now, best I can do is 22 minutes from B68 to A15! (2x this year!) I can't breathe for 10 minutes after, but it is doable! Still if there wasn't an option for a 35 minute connection, people might be able to enjoy the travel experience instead of being downright miserable. I won't book anything less then an hour and a half anymore, it's just not worth the stress.