Another Harley Davidson Oil Question.....

[hiljak]

I am new tho this board and I have found it interesting reading. I have also found that there is so much information out there on oil recommendations that it is unnecessarily confusing. I have a simple question:

I own a 2000 Harley Davidson Twin Cam (40,000+ miles) and my objective is to find an oil that I can use in all three "fills".
Crankcase
Primary Drive
Transmission

I have traditionally used Harley brand Non-Synthetic for the crankcase and different Harley oils for the Primary and Transmission. While all has been OK to date I realize there are far better oils out there. I read that some use synthetic and some do not. My objective is to use only one oil brand and weight for all three applications and to get as many miles as possible between oil changes. With these two objectives I believe I am definitely looking at a synthetic but which one?

I am considering:
Rotella (but do they make one that can be used in all three fills?)
Lucas Oil
AmsOil
Any others?

I will leave this week for a 2500 mile trip and I am looking to change my oil before I go. I'm not in to high performance riding nor high performance engine work. Most of my highway miles are cruising about 80-85 mph and I usually do back roads at 55-60. Of course all feedback is welcome but I ask you please not to get too scientific. I will be glad to research the oils you recommend and make a decision, I'm just looking to better understand the possibilities that are out there and to hear your experiences.
Thanks
Sean

 

[EagleFTE]

This thread has the potential to get emotional. I've seen posts where people say they do one lube in all three holes and all is fine. If I were to do it I would go top shelf. I think both Amsoil and M1 Vtwin say they are a 3 in 1 oil for HDs. As I recall M1 Vtwin adjusted the Moly for the primary but I don't think it had too much to start with. I would look hard at those two. Red Line in the white bottle is way high in Moly and may not be a good primary fluid. Red Line MC...don't know but it pricey. Some report trans problems with HD Syn 3 in the trans.

Personally I never bought into the Syn 3 theory and I'm not even sure that HD recommends it anymore, else why come out the Formula +??? Many beleive that you will be under-lubing your trans and wasting money on the primary.

But that is not what you asked. You just want to buy one fluid for simplicity right? AND you want to go as many miles between changes as possible. One of the HD dealers ran a test on four rental bikes using various combinations / brands. I'm not here to change your mind but the results are intersting and to some predictible. I'll see if I can find it.

 

[PT1]

M1Vtwin 20w50 or Amsoil MCV 20w50 will do all 3. But you will get better service out of a 75w90 syn gear oil in the trans and only need to change that every 15,000 miles. I noticed a dramatic difference in shifting with gear oil in the trans of my FXD. The 20w50 will shear down quickly in the trans and will cost you more. You can go 5000 miles with the 20w50.

 

[Steve S]

Tattoos , more important than any kind of oil.

 

[G-MAN]

Just go to the HD dealer and pick up a case of Formula+. Use that in the tranny and primary. You'll be happy and so will your gear box.

 

[PT1]

Better yet...get a quart of redline shockproof heavy 75w250 for your trans and run it 20-25,000 miles like I do. The tech at redline says it's good for 30,000 miles in a Harley trans. The idea of doing 4 OCI's on the trans in 100,000 miles appeals to me. For some guys 25,000 miles in their garage queen is lifetime lubrication.

 

[kballowe]

It's interesting to note that the Harley Formula+ is a mineral oil with very little additives but it works well in the primary and makes for good shift "feel". If you want, I'll go dig up the VOA that's out on this board somewhere.....

Harley says 5k change interval in transmission/primary with Formula+ ...... and 10K primary/20k transmission using Syn3.

There are a lot of folks that use M1 V-Twin/Amsoil MCV in all three holes..... and a lot that use all manner of combinations of whatever is in their comfort zone.

With a BT you get options. Three different fills..... three different choices.....

For me, it's M1 15w-50 synthetic (silver cap) in the crankcase, M1 75w-90 synthetic gear oil in the transmission, and Rotella 15w-40 in the primary. Note that just about anything will give good service in the primary chaincase. All you have in there is a clutch basket, two double-row gears and a double-row chain. In my mind, the transmission is better suited to gear oil, but motor oil will work just fine if you're doing 5k change intervals.

If your objective is to get as many miles per change as possible then the Mobil 1 or Amsoil offerings may be what you're after.

 

[PT1]

I am using 50-50 mix of redline MTL & MT90 in my primary. Perfect clutch action for me. RL SPH in the trans and later this year I'll go to RL20w50 in the engine.

 

[Turk]

If I were you I would do the following:

Amsoil MCV 20w-50 in the Engine & Primary.

Amsoil Severe Gear 75w-140 in the Transmission, I highly recommend it.

 

[TucsonDon]

If I had a motorcycle with separate sumps for engine and tranny -- I don't; the Wing is shared -- I'd have a pretty big smile on my face when pouring true gear oil for the transmission.

I guess what I'm saying is this -- if you have the luxury of separate oils for the separate applications, why would you ever consider collapsing to a single oil? Could "convenience" really be that valuable? We'd *never* consider doing that for our cars, so why for our bikes ... unless forced to by a shared sump design?

Maybe my question (or me) is simply naive. I'm honestly perplexed by this.

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: kballowe
It's interesting to note that the Harley Formula+ is a mineral oil with very little additives but it works well in the primary and makes for good shift "feel".


Have you looked at the published pour point of Formula+? Despite what HD says, I suspect this fluid is PAO based.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: kballowe
It's interesting to note that the Harley Formula+ is a mineral oil with very little additives but it works well in the primary and makes for good shift "feel".


Have you looked at the published pour point of Formula+? Despite what HD says, I suspect this fluid is PAO based.


Based on my cold weather experience I doubt it. Drags way to much when at 40F or below. RL MTL doesn't drag at all.

 

[kballowe]

Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: kballowe
It's interesting to note that the Harley Formula+ is a mineral oil with very little additives but it works well in the primary and makes for good shift "feel".


Have you looked at the published pour point of Formula+? Despite what HD says, I suspect this fluid is PAO based.


Not according to this VOA

Formula+_VOA_at_BITOG

and... thank-you G_Man for this following information (also posted in the same thread).

Specific Gravity: 0.857
Pounds per Gallon: 7.14
Viscosity, ASTM D 445,
cSt at 40°C: 168.04
cSt at 100°C: 20.10
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 139
Brookfield Viscosity, ASTM D 2983,
cP at -26°C - 28,800
cP at -40°C - n/m
Pour Point, ASTM D 97, °F (°C): -60 (-51)
Flash Point, ASTM D 92, °F (°C): 507 (264)

 

[kballowe]

Originally Posted By: PT1
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: kballowe
It's interesting to note that the Harley Formula+ is a mineral oil with very little additives but it works well in the primary and makes for good shift "feel".


Have you looked at the published pour point of Formula+? Despite what HD says, I suspect this fluid is PAO based.


Based on my cold weather experience I doubt it. Drags way to much when at 40F or below. RL MTL doesn't drag at all.


I agree with you there. I meant for the "normal" ambient temperature range that most riders "ride" in.

 

[harley145000]

Originally Posted By: Steve S
Tattoos , more important than any kind of oil.
are you on medication?

 

[G-MAN]

Originally Posted By: kballowe
Originally Posted By: G-MAN
Originally Posted By: kballowe
It's interesting to note that the Harley Formula+ is a mineral oil with very little additives but it works well in the primary and makes for good shift "feel".


Have you looked at the published pour point of Formula+? Despite what HD says, I suspect this fluid is PAO based.


Not according to this VOA

Formula+_VOA_at_BITOG

and... thank-you G_Man for this following information (also posted in the same thread).

Specific Gravity: 0.857
Pounds per Gallon: 7.14
Viscosity, ASTM D 445,
cSt at 40°C: 168.04
cSt at 100°C: 20.10
Viscosity Index, ASTM D 2270: 139
Brookfield Viscosity, ASTM D 2983,
cP at -26°C - 28,800
cP at -40°C - n/m
Pour Point, ASTM D 97, °F (°C): -60 (-51)
Flash Point, ASTM D 92, °F (°C): 507 (264)


A VOA can't tell you the basestock.

And if that -60F pour point is accurate, there is no way this fluid uses conventional basestocks. Also, that extremely high flash point of 507F tends to indicate PAO is the basestock.

 

[fuel tanker man]

I'd tend to think Harley Davidson is exaggerating the pour point rather than missing an opportunity to call a syn based oil... a syn based oil.

They say it's mineral based, so it probably is. http://www.harley-davidson.com/gma/gma_p...&bmLocale=en_US

Dan

 

[harley145000]

I noticed they raised the price $1.00 for the plus f tanker,knew that was coming.

 

[PT1]

Originally Posted By: harley145000
Originally Posted By: Steve S
Tattoos , more important than any kind of oil.
are you on medication?


actually probably off his meds....